The Horde isn’t interested in genocide, and there were several Alliance nations that wanted genocide: that’s why the Alliance of Lordaeron split up in the first place – some of these nations are in the Alliance right now.
No, she really couldn’t have.
We had 4 wars already with the Horde attempting(and in some cases suceeding) to genocide the Alliance.
You mean the elves who had wanted to wipe out the orcs instead of imprisoning them? You know they are Horde now as well? Heck, Varian’s was the tie breaking vote to make sure they were imprisoned instead.
Or Daelin? Jaina had a hand in his death and the rest of the Alliance didnt participate. The Horde actively participated as an organization until it was too late.
Talanji was going to give her fleet in service of Sylvanas’ genocidal crusade. She got rewarded accordingly.
lmao how did they get literally all of their EK holdings?
How did they get their current homelands, Zerde?
The Alliance loves Genociding Troll populations, they literally did it in living memory. They did not spare a single tribe on the continent.
And how many times was it made expressly clear that the Warchiefs in charge were not well liked by the faction? Hell, Garrosh didn’t even have the majority support of his own people – the majority of the orcs backed Vol’jin. At this point, Garrosh and Sylvanas both are outliers to the Horde remaining heroic.
No, I mean the nations of Gilneas and Stromgarde. As for Silvermoon, they did but surpise surprise the Orcs actually changed, with Lor’themar even recognizing that they did.
Because Garrosh was going to destroy both Thunder Bluff and the Echo Isles (Kalimdor Horde) if they disobeyed, and would have had no problems doing the same to Silvermoon and the Undercity (Eastern Horde.) As for Sylvanas? No one knew she was planning on burning down the world tree.
Talanji didn’t even back Sylvanas when the time came down to it; the Zandalari Empire abstained from both the loyalist and rebellion side completely. All the same though, she was rewarded accordingly for going with the natural pick: a strong and loyal ally in the Horde, and a seat on the Horde Council, compared to the Alliance which has a noble house and kingdom all about slaughtering Trolls.
They settled in unoccupied land. But when they actually built it up into something prosperous the trolls attack them and ultimately they and they elves kicked their butt.
And yes this is the lore. Thoradin’s people were apperently being harassed by the trolls and that is why they went and joined the elves.
Both of them had the support of the Horde and only lost it when it became clear THEY were getting hurt by the efforts of their warchief. They didn’t suddenly stop the war and turned Sylvanas’ head in when Teldrassil burned.
Jaina in contrast, did it long before she had a personal stake/she was on the losing end of events.
Uh the dark irons were absolutely trying to do it and the only reason they stopped was because they had to flee.
Bro you have literal manari on the alliance
They are man’ari current trying to redeem themselves for it. Or should we kill everyone and never give anyone second chances? Which is it? Because if its the latter then the entire Horde should suffer the same fate.
they were very interested in genocide
And they didn’t do so while Alliance. A pretty important distinction.
Similarly, not Alliance while doing so.
Zerde chomping at the bit like a pitbull
? Garrosh was never well-liked by almost every horde leader, Vol’jin threatened to kill him, Cairne also threatened to kill him and almost did in Mak’gora, Sylvanas disobeyed his orders frequently, Gallywix cared about $ more then anything and Lor’themar was never a Horde warhawk. And by the point of Teldrassil, even if they killed Sylvanas the war wasn’t just going to stop, by that point it was far too late.
Is it? Is it really an important distinction when the Man’ari have more blood on their hands then Sylvanas, Garrosh, really every Horde villain combined? Also –
By this logic, the Man’ari not being Alliance doesn’t matter. The Old Horde and the New Horde are in every way different, but if you’re going to put the First and Second Wars on the New Horde; then Arzaal absolutely gets the blame of the Burning Crusade that ended up with almost the entire universe being destroyed.
Edit: Arzaal didn’t even rebel from the Legion when it was still active or give us help in Argus when we were there to raid Antorus, at least Vol’jin and Saurfang launched their rebellions when Garrosh and Sylvanas were still a threat.
And yet he was liked by his people, hence the reason Thrall even put him in charge.
YES! The killing didn’t happen because of/in the name of the Alliance! They killed in the name of the Legion and now the Alliance is effectively their watchers making sure they actually try to redeem themselves.
Saurfang himself says they are the heirs of Blackhand. They use the same iconography and references the Horde origins. The Man’ari are not doing so and actively reject the Legion now and everything it stood for! Maybe the Horde should have done the same long ago.
His adoration clearly didn’t last, because the majority of the orcs sided with Vol’jin. Garrosh wasn’t even his first pick, his first pick would have been Dranosh Saurfang.
They killed in the name of the Legion for it’s entire existence, only going “we’re sorry :(” after the fact.
Saurfang said Sylvanas was the heir to Blackhand’s bloody legacy. Not the Horde itself. He even outright states that Thrall and Vol’jin weren’t the heirs to Blackhand’s legacy, Sylvanas was. Not the rest of the Horde. Sylvanas. And the New Horde -DID- reject everything the Old Horde stood for. No Warlocks, no demonic corruption; a return to what the Orcs were before Gul’dan and Garrosh. And they continued to reject what it stood for with their dethroning of Garrosh and Sylvanas.
Thrall, Vol’jin… they were not the true heirs to Blackhand’s bloody legacy. Sylvanas Windrunner is.
Which should not be blamed on the Alliance. The actions of the Horde, for the Horde, should.
And yet his fall only came alot later when he pissed off alot of other people. The Horde didn’t act because “it was the right thing to do” they acted because it was their skin already getting cooked by Garrosh.
Varok Saurfang: The Horde I joined was birthed in blood. Tainted by corruption. The road that led to the Dark Portal was long and wide paved with the bones of innocents. We called it the Path of Glory.
Saurfang pounds his hand against the stone.
Varok Saurfang: That was the great lie upon which the Horde was founded… that anything we did was honorable. Thrall, Vol’jin… they were not the true heirs to Blackhand’s bloody legacy. Sylvanas Windrunner is.
That is the exact quote. And he implies that the “true” Horde is the one Sylvanas lead and not the one lead by Thrall or Vol’jin. That that bloody and and innocent killing Horde is its true form.
That didn’t last long.
And they continue falling for it. Maybe this newest version without a warchief won’t fall into corruption so easily. We will see.
Leaving out the stuff from the first two RTS where the lore was a lot more “metal” and sticking more with WoW, has the horde achieved any genocide?
Only actual genocide I can think of was by Ironforge dwarves.
Why should we leave out the two? The Horde was an evil organization and arguably it didn’t change enough to the point it continue its path.
Teldrassil is considered a genocide.
That has never been painted as a genocide and has always been painted as self defense.
No, they acted because it was the right thing to do. The Horde betraying him was always not a matter of if, but -when.-
That’s not at all what he’s implying. He’s implying that the foundation of the Old Horde was corrupt no matter what they said they wanted to do (true). Thrall and Vol’jin led the Horde into actual heroism and greatness, and that Sylvanas was going to bring back the Old Horde’s war-mongering.
It did. As I’ve stated several times now, the Orcs sided with Vol’jin and not Garrosh.
Yeah, being written out of character will do that to a faction.
I mean, other than different organization, the story was a lot less fleshed out then.
It’s called a genocide by someone who has a strong connection to Teldrassil, the actual event doesn’t really seem to fit in with the definition.
Self defensive invasion of someone else’s land and then wiping out a whole tribe?
Vol’jin and co were all still onboard with his war until he got betrayed.
No, it is what he is implying. Anduin was the one who had to snap him out of it and said the Horde wasn’t the only one who had regrets.
I mean the no warlocks/demonic corrupting thing. Arguably the Horde kept getting corrupted, first by the Sha and then an agent of Zovaal.
They are an organization that claims its heritage from it. They should claim its sins as well.
I doubt Anduin would use the term lightly. Regardless,this has been how said event was treated.
The fact the Frostmane still exist is proof they were not wiped out. Also, we don’t know ancient EK lore. But like the rest of the Troll I imagine the first dwarf/troll encounter happened the same way. The Dwarves settled in unclaimed/unoccupied land, the trolls attack them and war happened.