Talanji should have asked both factions for aid instead of only one

This is why I adore the Vulpera so much. They’re the one race horde side who has the moral high ground.

Everything they did during the events of Vol’dun was self defense against the Faithless Sethrakk, who wanted to enslave the entire zandalari continent and the horde champions just happen to show up at a convenient time to help with the same problem ironically

Little desert fox vibes :dracthyr_nod: :dracthyr_heart:

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I’d just like to add, that the current high elves are a people that at either one point or another picked another group (most often the Alliance) over staying with their kingdom and main population, either because they felt like they didn’t belong or didn’t agree with what they deemed was necessary to survive as a people.

The “first” group of these high elves would be the ones that stayed away from Quel’thalas mainly in Alliance settlements even when the kingdom withdrew itself, it was also stated that the majority of these high elves did not return for their kingdom either during or after the third war.
The “second” would be those that were with the kingdom up until they started draining creatures of magic. And thus either left by their own will or if they did not were exiled.
Keep in mind the withdrawal could kill the young, the old and the sick. And even if it wasn’t fatal it could leave one permanently disabled. Not an ideal situation at all for a people that just lost 90% of their population to say the least.

The “third” wave should have been the ones to leave when the kingdom joined the Horde as many did not agree with it. But we also need to keep in mind that by this point the Alliance had already essentially cut ties with the blood elves and rejected them. The Horde was not Quel’thalas first choice. The lore states that the night elves upon joining the Alliance spoke very badly about the highborne and how their dealing with demons ruined the world which is what made the Alliance so suspicious to the point that they even didn’t fully trust regular high elves, not to mention that they knew Quel’thalas at this point in time was allied to the “demon” Illidan.

So from the blood elves perspective the high elves are traitors that refused to do what was needed for the kingdom when the majority of them were suffering and had no one backing them in the world.
While the high elves believe the blood elves lost their way and it would have been better with more causalities than “lose” themselves.
Then post tbc it’s honestly just faction conflict back and forth that added fuel to the fire, but it’s not the foundation.
Comparably there’s been more blood elves expressing doubt/reaching out an olive branch to the high elves than in the reverse. Mainly because of the allowed pilgrimages, the offer of supplies to the lodge, Rommath even expressed that he was not happy about having to fight against high elves during the purge.
But there’s plenty of violence as well.

Still the groups are not equivalent at all, after all the high elves are only 10% of the total thalassian population.

Who were in the right? Do things that are/was unthinkable in your culture to be able to give the most of your people a chance to live in the after march of a genocide, or stay true to your old ideals and let an unknown amount die, become disabled, what’s sure is that there will be a lot more of suffering.

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The Darkspears were going to join the Horde regardless. The main threat to them were not the Kul Tiran forces on their island, but the naga sea witch.

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And I just wonder… where?
Sure, people can point to acts from individual Blood Elves, among who even the victims of recognized that the “blood elven” perpetrator would never really be counted as one of them - because said perpetrator’s philosophy differed so much from the philosophy of the Blood Elves.

Which is mindboggling on two fronts. A High Elf recognized the extremely good in Blood Elves, but at the same time she hates them with a burning passion that could rival the sun. It is so extremely weird.

Which is also weird, because when the High Elves first taught the humans magic, the High Elves were the ones who had to step in to stop another legion spread at the hands of the humans. But that was in the Kirin’tor, so :man_shrugging:

They didn’t.
No one knew. The last thing the Night Elves knew was that Kael’thas helped them against Illidan.

Remember, the only ones who knew of Kael’thas joining up with Illidan was Maiev, and Maiev was imprisoned, her entire squad was killed. She never had any chance of reporting back.

Depending on what happened to the Ironforge dwarves who were with Garithos at the time of Sylvanas’ backstabbing, I would presume they died along with the rest of Garithos’ regiment, no one but the Blood Elves knew of Kael’thas’ dealings with Illidan, hell, if even anyone but Rommath and other magisters who were with Kael’thas initially knew, earlier Blood Elf lore (Before blizzard changed the race lore pages) stated that Rommath never really fully disclosed and told about Kael’thas’ dealings with Illidan and fel (The felfire crystals) because he feared it would create panic.

There was also another source, that gives us a canonical timeline on when things happened. So allegedly, the Blood Elves joining up with the Horde happened before the Draenei crashed on Azeroth.

All in all, something very weird happened, but no one, until we reached Shattrath, knew about Kael’thas’ dealings with Illidan and then the Legion, and at that time the Blood Elves of Silvermoon also swore that they would personally take responsible for their fallen prince, so they made it very clear that they were not with Kael’thas at that point.

They could have joined the Alliance through Kul’tiras if Kul’tiras helped, yes? Hell, maybe even encourage the trolls to just remain neutral.

Then yes, the Alliance forced the trolls into the Horde.

Instead they chose to attack - and that has been the repeated history of the Alliance against many of the Horde races. Attacks based on prejudice and bigotry.

Now that is a stretch.

Sen’jin had a vision of Thrall and his forces coming to save them from the sea witch. It was that vision that made the Darkspears join the Horde. Even if the Kul Tiran forces ‘helped’ them against the naga and her forces, they still would’ve joined the horde.

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Chronicle explicitly mentions that the blood elves alliance to Illidan as one of the reasons the relations soured and why they were rejected.
"Kael'thas decision to join Lady Vash and Illidan had soured relations between Quel'thalas and the Alliance"

Yup, I am well aware. But which Alliance?
It certainly soured relations with the Alliance that Garithos was a part of, which is not the current Grand Alliance.

It mentions the one with gnomes, night elves, dwarves and humans and this being the reason for why they won’t get aid from them. So the current Alliance.

tbf the Night Elves were not part of the Alliance at that point in time. It most likely references the conflict with Garithos.

The Night Elves left Lordaeron on good terms with the Blood Elves. Kael’thas helped Malfurion and Maeiv stop Illidan and soon after exposed Maeiv as a traitor for lying about Tyrandes fate.

I highly doubt they would care if Kael’thas sided with Illidan given that Illidan had just been pardoned by Malfurion and Tyrande for saving the latters life. They told that to Maeiv and she chased after Illidan anyway.

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What’s funny about this “wave” of exiles is that they’d technically have been blood elves for two, probably three years before Rommath came home with the mana tap. In other words, these weren’t loyal friends of the Alliance, they were ex-blood elves forced to subsist in derelict lodges or crawl back to an Alliance that retained, and I quote, “bitter memories of their secession.”

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No it explicitly mentions this reasoning for why they won’t get help by the Gnomes, Dwarves, Humans or Night elves. So it is clearly the current Alliance.

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Love it…
And people wonder why I try to give up on Warcraft lore.
It is a convoluted mess that not even Blizzard have any idea of how works.

Because honestly - how would anyone know? Not even the Blood Elves knew (except a fair few, like Rommath and other magisters). The only ones who knew were either dead or imprisoned.

But hey… atleast the chronicles are just written from the titan’s perspective. The fact that it was what soured the relations was just the titan’s perspective, not literal fact :man_shrugging:

I hate it all so much, tbh, and yet I am still curious where the hell blizzard is going with all of this crap.

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/sigh

Again this is why I reckon having the Draenei starting experience be set before the Blood Elf one makes a better story. Because this way the Alliance knows, or at least can infer that Kael’thas has sided with the Legion given the fact that a Man’ari Eredar was leading the blood elf forces on the Azuremyst and Bloodmyst Isles. Not to mention the sun gate, a portal to Tempest Keep itself. Therefore they would be ‘justified’ to send over a spies to see if the Blood Elves still on Azeroth has joined the Legion as well. Hence the dwarf spy and the Night Elf forces in Ghostlands.

But alas it is the other way around. Blood Elf starting experience then the Draenei one according to chronicles vol 3.

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I think it is all stupid.
The Draenei as they are now should never have been playable. Eredar turning draenei was stupid. We should just have the original draenei race introduced in Frozen Throne, which basically are the lost draenei as they are called now I think.

Blood Elves also should never have been playable, that also goes for Night Elves tbh… and forsaken.

The reasoning back during tbc release according to blizzard didn’t mention Illidan, it seems to be a chronicle original. Back then it was the whole night elves smack talks them so heavily that the whole alliance becomes haters.
And even back in vanilla some night elves knew that they dealt with fel as one quest talks about how he’s worried that the blood elves will turn into some horrid new monster race like the naga or satyr as they keep dealing with the dark magic. So it’s not too out there, it’s just extremely niche lore.

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Your whole argument that started this chain – was that embracing a race embraces its crimes … And now you’re arguing it only applies to the Horde but not the Alliance? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

The hypocrisy is unreal.

Well there goes your overall argument.

  • None of the current leaders were present as being part of the Horde during its reign of terror under Gul’dan and the Legion. So that list is all mute.
  • As for the reformed Horde created from Thrall – Onwards from such, majority of the most frowned upon acts in the Horde: The leaders were either deceived into what the outcome would be (or lied towards, such as Teldrassil - as the plan was to capture, not destroy) — or outright spoke against it.

Comparing Sylvanas to Kil’Jaeden & Archimonde is insane.

Sylvanas doesn’t even come close to the countless amount of genocide, torture and magnitude of unfathomable destruction wrought by the leaders of the Burning Legion :joy: Lmao

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These crimes happens by Horde characters, under the Horde banner. The Man’ari never did and the did there genocide for the Legion. Its not hypocrisy. Its lore.

Maybe the Horde should just drop the organization once and for all?

Las I checked the Horde has committed multiple genocide under Thrall’s Horde. Most recently Teldrassil.

1 is not multiple genius

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And did you forget Theramore, mr. Genius? Or how about Gilneas?