Taking a Break until M+ and Raiding changes

[Crossblésser-daggerspine]

While I am not a fan of mythic plus nobody is forced to do anything , infact you can easily clear normal raid every season without mythic plus at all

Not sure either why people announce they are leaving as if blizzard is broke, they make money hand over foot

[Flashock-stormrage]

For the record.

The first 4 mythic bosses were downed with less than 615 average ilvl.

My team is working on those bosses at 625 without having a hardline “requirement” to do m+

[Scadupriest-tichondrius]

Imo filling vault doesn’t seem like a big ask for a hardcore guild.

[Jhannae-bronzebeard (Jhannae)]

@Hpellipsis-whisperwind

I do think 4 keys a week

I am just doing lowbie stuffs becoz of hardware issues but in worst case scenarios like mine, 4 keys (and/or 4 Delves - may soon not work) is what I do.

[Hpellipsis-whisperwind (Hpellipsis)]

@Jhannae-bronzebeard

4 keys (and/or 4 Delves - may soon not work) is what I do.

I should specify 4x 10+ keys.

[Shadybolt-thrall]

@Elk-thaurissan

But also noting that most do no have nearly the same time as the world first folk do.

The World First guilds have historically only had one, two, or three weeks to finish the raid. The average player has MONTHS that they can spend on it.

You do not understand my argument if you say this kind of a thing: the point is that they had the actual possibility to do it without ever getting any M+/great vault gear that would’ve been relevant to them.

It taking them less than two weeks just makes my point even stronger! Because they didn’t have enough crests at that point to max out the gear that they could get.

@Hpellipsis-whisperwind

World first nerub ar palace had an average raid ilvl of 625~. Not a single player had a weapon under 636, most players items were at least above 630, with the items that dragged it down being cloaks and wrists from normal.

Meanwhile the world 10th kill was 631 ilvl.

“Liquid were 625 you just need to git gud” is not the argument you seem to think it is.

It is because you don’t get the argument. The ilvl of LATER guilds doesn’t matter, because anyone but the very first can spend as much time as they want on it. Anything that M+, delves, heroic raids, split runs - whatever you want… all that does for players is speed things up.

---

There is ZERO requirement for the average player to NEED M+ in order to do Mythic raiding. Most people who participate in mythic raiding simply likes PvE and likely enjoys it in other scenarios as well, such as M+. Since statistically speaking, most WoW players who participate in endgame content like M+ the most from all of the data that we have.

The ability to clear Mythic completely without any additional gear from outside of the highest possible content available to them at the time (which would’ve been Mythic raids) showcase that you can clear Mythic with nothing but the gear you get from that. Most people won’t, but that’s irrelevant - there is nothing forcing players who dislike M+ to participate in M+, even at a Mythic raiding level.

That’s the point I’m making, and we know this for a fact at this point because the race to world first proved it. Players who aren’t trying to get world first can take their time and never step inside of a M+ and just gear up from raids. The RTWF proves that to be undisputable fact.

[Azstarys-wyrmrest-accord]

I feel like raiding is a young person’s game. I loved raiding in Vanilla-Cata or on EQ/doing Champ Spawns and Gauntlet of Doom in UO, because I was in school/early college and had time to blow 4+ hours with the goons.

Fast forward 14 years and it’s hard to find 4 hours to set down and play any game between family/my job and just enjoying life in general.

M+ is nice cus it’s harder content in short bursts, but the community is pretty rough.

I really wish we had more challenging solo content that scaled higher than delves. Would be nice if they brought back challenge modes or just caked in a more difficult delve option.

[Flashock-stormrage]

Mythic raiding isn’t a gearing issue.
It’s a skill issue.

The world first teams clear it with like 615.

Some of us will be attempting it at 630+

[Snozay-area-52]

@Drakelock-thrall

Forced M+ - Mythic plus is forced onto raiders. It is not only forced but we have to spend more hours doing M+ than raiding. This is not a great experience with the current state of Mythic plus. I enjoy mythic progression. In order to ensure a raid spot or to join another guild you are forced to spam M+ and grind for as many hours as you can.

People that do more activities will always have a better advantage.

@Drakelock-thrall

Great Vault M+ - Because M+ is required for raiding there is a big obligation to complete 8 dungeons at the highest level keys as possible. In fact we are pushed to do 8, +10’s every week or else we are failing the ability to get the gear we want. Because of this there is a forcing of players to spend 12+ hours every week just doing keys just so we can raid

Depends on the guild. Mine only requires 4.

And if you want to play at the top it’s expected.

@Drakelock-thrall

M+ difficulty - We all know that the difficulty for this season has made M+ very frustrating and its so frustrating it makes a person not want to do any other content for WoW. The frustrating part of M+ is that the success of key is not determined by one persons ability to carry a key. I as a lock cannot force a tank to pull or do what he needs to do. A dps cannot force proper healing. I spend hours failing keys because of other people doing things that I cannot overcome. I can’t make up for the loss of another player doing something wrong. I am at the mercy of the player base and it feels miserable.

It’s the same as any other season. The only difference is myth track requires a higher level to be done.

@Drakelock-thrall

The hours spent that provides no rewards. I am forced to spend hours in M+ to Raid at the mythic progression level. If you have a guild that does not require that, then you are not part of the majority of guilds and you cannot relate. I spend so many hours failing keys that provide no reward and often get abandoned that it causes me anxiety and frustration. So many hours wasted playing this game with no rewards that I cannot justify playing it over playing other games or doing other things.

Stop failing keys then. Sounds like your guild requires more than you’re willing or level of play that you’re at.

[Kookiecutter-zuljin]

The only issue I really have is applying to +8 keys and getting declined 50 times before I finally get invited to one at 2200 io, which is insane to me because I’ve never experienced that before. For an +8…………Otherwise it’s fine.

[Adaia-moon-guard]

You’re not forced to do M+ for Heroic raid

[Quenya-shadow-council (Quenya)]

@Drakelock-thrall

Forced

There’s that word again. Every WoW sub needs to come with a dictionary

[Flesha-tichondrius]

@Drakelock-thrall

Take care

Well, bye !

PS, Can I have your gold?

[Pandaverse-zuljin]

@Drakelock-thrall

Forced M+ - Mythic plus is forced onto raiders. It is not only forced but we have to spend more hours doing M+ than raiding. This is not a great experience with the current state of Mythic plus. I enjoy mythic progression. In order to ensure a raid spot or to join another guild you are forced to spam M+ and grind for as many hours as you can.

Not really I just do my 8 plus 10’s per week and I’m done.

@Drakelock-thrall

Because of this there is a forcing of players to spend 12+ hours every week just doing keys just so we can raid.

Where did you get the time frame from? It takes half that.

@Drakelock-thrall

M+ difficulty - We all know that the difficulty for this season has made M+ very frustrating

Mplus is a joke, a 10 can be done half asleep compared to what myth brood throws at you.

Now did I prefer when I only had to do 1 a week for the chest in legion and bfa? yeah absolutely but I had to AP farm and so much more in those expansions so I take the win.

@Drakelock-thrall

If you have a guild that does not require that, then you are not part of the majority of guilds and you cannot relate

Nor can you as you have 0 mythic kills linked to your account at all. You are trying to talk about something you have 0 experience in

@Azstarys-wyrmrest-accord

M+ is nice cus it’s harder content in short bursts

Its really not. A plus 10 can be done half asleep start to finish mythic brood is harder than any 10 key this season.

[Mannarchy-skullcrusher]

Sounds like a guild problem then

[Boltinqt-defias-pillager]

@Drakelock-thrall

This version of WoW negativly impacts the mental health of its players and creates anxiety and an overwhelming feeling of failing and being punished.

It’s a game bro if you feel this way log out

[Profezzor-sargeras (Profezzor)]

You’re in the wrong guild. Don’t let others pressure you and do what you enjoy.

[Ache-azshara (Ache)]

So you entire argument is that you feel forced to do m+

Well… You’re not.

Certainly you won’t be as useful to a mythic raiding guild if you don’t; but that still doesn’t make you forced.

[Xyrá-sargeras]

So a tldr is, I enjoy mythic raid progression, but I hate 5 man mythic challenges. This is why I’ll always defend the fact that mythic + is harder on the individual player than mythic raiding. Mythic + just shows how bad you actually are and how much you are getting carried. If you are failing 10’s that much, I wouldn’t consider you to be a person who’s done a lot of mythic raiding.

[Arlaeya-icecrown]

Trust me, if the game forced me to do M+, I just wouldn’t do it. If a guild I was in forced me to do anything, I would quit that guild. But I wouldn’t join a hardcore guild anyway as that’s not my playstyle. You can choose to not do the stuff that’s frustrating you. At any time! Quitting is one choice you can make to avoid that frustration.

But if you only get enjoyment out of the highest end content and will only run with the people who put demands on you like you describe and won’t even consider not playing at that level then… um… still making choices there. None of this is forced by anyone on you but yourself. You do not have to play the game this way. People choose to do so.

I know fully well one of my BIS trinkets is in Grim Batol. It can continue to sit there for now and I’ll still be raiding heroic tomorrow with the chill group I run with. See? Choices! Making them!