I think I can speak for a lot of players with my thoughts here. I hope that someone who can make changes will read this. This version of WoW negativly impacts the mental health of its players and creates anxiety and an overwhelming feeling of failing and being punished. The feeling of being rewarded in this version is so little compared to the punishment feeling. I do not see a reason to play a game that punishes players as much as this version of WoW does.
There are several aspects that are enjoyable in this expansion. I have enjoyed parts of it. The parts that I play WoW for have got increasingly less enjoyable. I want to explain why I am taking a break and what I hope to see change.
Forced M+ - Mythic plus is forced onto raiders. It is not only forced but we have to spend more hours doing M+ than raiding. This is not a great experience with the current state of Mythic plus. I enjoy mythic progression. In order to ensure a raid spot or to join another guild you are forced to spam M+ and grind for as many hours as you can.
Great Vault M+ - Because M+ is required for raiding there is a big obligation to complete 8 dungeons at the highest level keys as possible. In fact we are pushed to do 8, +10ās every week or else we are failing the ability to get the gear we want. Because of this there is a forcing of players to spend 12+ hours every week just doing keys just so we can raid.
M+ difficulty - We all know that the difficulty for this season has made M+ very frustrating and its so frustrating it makes a person not want to do any other content for WoW. The frustrating part of M+ is that the success of key is not determined by one persons ability to carry a key. I as a lock cannot force a tank to pull or do what he needs to do. A dps cannot force proper healing. I spend hours failing keys because of other people doing things that I cannot overcome. I canāt make up for the loss of another player doing something wrong. I am at the mercy of the player base and it feels miserable.
Go find a M+ group or a raiding guild. Often M+ is worse when doing them within your guild. Usually thereās a handful of people that can do the keys and the rest of us carry the others. This is frustrating and it encourages me to PUG instead of play with the guild. Paradoxically I am forced to do M+ for 10-20 hours a week just so I can get into a guild doing mythic progression and then I have to continue to spend that many hours so I can be a contributing member and not be a burden to the guild cause Iām the one not doing +10 keys a week. 90 crests? OK so now I am forced to get that many or else I am pulling the raid down and hulting progression.
The hours spent that provides no rewards. I am forced to spend hours in M+ to Raid at the mythic progression level. If you have a guild that does not require that, then you are not part of the majority of guilds and you cannot relate. I spend so many hours failing keys that provide no reward and often get abandoned that it causes me anxiety and frustration. So many hours wasted playing this game with no rewards that I cannot justify playing it over playing other games or doing other things.
I am taking a break and after this post I am canceling my sub until things change. I encourage others to do the same. The level of frustration in this game is not acceptable. I probably will come back at some point but I think the game has been a burden and not been fun this expansion. Punishing and lack of rewards and sense of accomplishment. I log in everyday just to grind at M+ and feeling miserable for hours. 20 minutes trying to get into a key then the key fails and then Iām back to trying to get into keys. I will spend several hours just trying to get into keys then they fail so much that it does not justify the amount of time invested.
I hope to see changes. If not then Iāll stay away. Iāll gradually pay less and less attention. I am going to force myself to uninstall and delete everything and take a break. Iāll come back when I see changes if I decide to go back and pay attention.
I know my voice goes on deaf ears but I hope things change. I am going to go invest time into a game or an activity that makes me feel rewarded and creates a sense of enjoyment while playing. I am tired of feeling punished.
My guild requires 2 mythic+ vault slots a week from raiders, some do more. Some do exactly that and no more. Even if thereās ilvl disparities early on in the tier the fights arenāt tuned to where the ilvl is necessarily holding us back and by the time we reach a point where it would then people have caught up from raids.
i would hope not. if it is then no wonder they are burnt out.
this is more realistic, even in my casual guild i helped them with a 10 no leaver grim batol. we went 20 mins over so even at that pace we would be un 8 hours lol.
I agree and Iāve seen that for multiple x-pacs and the same thing can be said about Mythic Raiding. Even the old 25 Heroic Raids allowed for a couple of weaker players since the tuning wasnāt as tight as we have currently.
The tuning really isnāt that tight until the last half, at which point youāve had multiple heroic clears and mythic raid vaults from the first 4, plus the first 4 bosses themselves to make up the difference.
Nope. You can only speak for you, yourself, none other than you, possibly your shadow as well, but largely just you.
Soā¦ you dislike M+ and you are cancelling your subscription until M+ changes? Oh-kay.
Bye! Hope you find another game you actually enjoy! ^^
But I want to actually comment on one thing you said, because it do be interesting:
Prior to TWW, you couldāve maybe used this as an argumentā¦ but the Race to World First in TWW proves that no. You do not need to participate in M+ AT ALL in order to clear Mythic raids.
All doing M+ is doing for yaā is helping you along to gear up marginally faster, but even that is basically non-existent since you are already killing Mythic bosses with just Heroic raid gear. Which anyone can do. As demonstrated by the RTWF not having any Mythic+ gear at all.
All M+ does is add another avenue of gear to the game. If you cannot kill Mythic raid bosses without M+ gear, and you are blaming it on not having M+ gear, it simply means that you arenāt a good enough player and need a scapegoat.
Most players arenāt participating in the Race to World First, but the fact that it is doable without M+ gearā¦ that means it is doable without M+ gear. You just have to be better at the game to do it.
Itās less about needing the ilvl and more about mythic rosters being 25 people and someone else is likely putting in that effort.
If you donāt want to touch m+ at all and just want to raid log youāre going to be pretty much a liability, you wonāt even have crests. But a small amount of m+ involvement fixes that.
I pretty much donāt do keys at all. Have done 3x 0s and 1x 2 this whole season. So , keys are not even remotely a requirement to raid.
Ilvl is 618 , and our guild is on the Queen in Heroic. And for the last couple weeks , most of my guild has been playing other games instead of spamming keys.
Last xpac , they tried the ā¦ if you donāt do keys for vaults every week , you will be benched. I took that to heart and benched myself, lol. That expectation isnāt there this xpac.
Thereās lots of reasons to bow out of TWW, even over DF.
But I canāt ālikeā your post because youāre saying you have to do 8 +10s to keep your raid spot, but also your guildies canāt do that so you have to PUG? That doesnāt make sense.
It sounds like you would prefer to min/max your raid gear by supplementing with M+, but itās not required.
Not much of what you said here really matters that much. Because at the end of the day, no one is forced to do M+ to get into Mythic Raiding. Unless that is a requirement of a guild but then that is a socially enforced requirement, not a systematic expectation when designing Mythic raid encounters.
Crests doesnāt matter for this; if one want crests, play more of the game. You can do that either by actually playing more in a smaller time window (doing M+, Heroic Raids, Delves, anything), or you spend more time getting your stuff from fewer activities.
A socially enforced requirement is nothing that Blizzard can do anything about, nor should they. Most folks who like PvE just like PvE in general. So this isnāt a realistic issue that anyone except forum contrarians have realistically speaking. Iām not calling you one butā¦ safe to say, we all know which dwarf loves to talk ill about M+ and phrase it via āwonāt someone think of the poor Mythic raiders.ā
At the end of the day, the race to world first proves that in TWW ā¦ To clear Mythic Ansurek, no amount of M+ is a requirement of any kind. For most people, thatās largely irrelevant and folks will simply just take more time to clear Mythic.
But regardless of whatever people say, we have a factual point to stand on where you can clear Nerub-ar Palace with no M+, and especially no M+ great vault (meaning that youād still be capped to Heroic gear, and due to the number of crests that were available at that point in time, not even fully upgraded Heroic gear either).
Numerically itās likely most guilds who are on Mythic clears have the numbers for it (after however many weeks, finery buff, etc). But also noting that most do no have nearly the same time as the world first folk do. And letās be real some of it is ability too (no exception to myself, Iāve never done mythic raid when it was current).
This goes both ways, especially in TWW with Blizzard adding levels to myth track armor. Anyone wanting to push for the highest keys will also practically need mythic raid gear as well. Itās fine if you want to recognize how this blade cuts both directions, but you focused solely on the raiders needing to m+.
If itās taking you 12+ hours to get through 8 +10 keys, especially with guild mates capable of mythic raiding, something is going very, very wrong.
Should you be able to carry players in levels of M+ that give mythic raid quality gear? I get it, if youāre going to treat M+ as just a chore, your only goal is to minimize the time it takes. But what of the players who actually want M+ to be their main form of progression? Should those players have a cakewalk where their rewards stop so raiders can get their vault credit painlessly?
Are you saying that mythic raid capable players canāt complete +10s? Maybe we should reevaluate the rampant claim that gets made on the forums regarding how much more difficult mythic raid is compared to M+ā¦
If this is how you view progression, then honestly your personal goals are just out of line with what it takes to achieve them. I am empathetic to the high end pushers for both raid and M+ feeling burnout because of the time they spend in alternative high end content to compete. But if you do not enjoy keeping up with what the players youāre competing against are willing to do to remain competitive, then you arenāt going to enjoy that progression activity.
World first nerub ar palace had an average raid ilvl of 625~. Not a single player had a weapon under 636, most players items were at least above 630, with the items that dragged it down being cloaks and wrists from normal.
Meanwhile the world 10th kill was 631 ilvl.
āLiquid were 625 you just need to git gudā is not the argument you seem to think it is.
I do think 4 keys a week is pretty reasonable though.
To me, looks like you are on a wrong guild. How can you do Mythic Raiding with that guild who mostly fails in M+? All of you should contribute to the progress not being carried.
