Good. She can reawaken my other artifacts while she’s at it.
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So it looks like she got her version of Frostmourn now?
I’m still supporting Sylvanas Windrunner, counting on the explanations from “The Good War”.
Obviously I’ll be disappointed if Blizzard simply abandons that lore, but based on it I’m still with her.
It’s the old Cold War scenario, First Strike vs Mutually Assured Destruction.
She chose First Strike (and the in game arguments are better than the real world ones were) and Saurfang sees MAD as more honorable.
“If a hundred years of peace ends with a war that annihilates both sides, it was not a worthy goal. It was a coward’s bargain, trading the future for temporary comfort. The Horde’s children, and their children’s children, will curse our memories as they burn.”
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sylvanas: xal’atath hungers
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… except that there is no MAD scenario: neither side has a weapon that can guarantee the absolute destruction of the other.
At most, and assuming that Sylvannas was right on her assessment that there would never be a lasting peace between the factions, it meant a never ending war with casualties on both sides that will blame their ancestors for not resolving it and for the countless deaths on their sides.
The issue with Sylvannas’ argument is precisely that she assumes that neither side will ever get tired of fighting the war and that the goal of both faction leaders will be the same forever. Perhaps, that scenario makes sense for her since one could say she is immortal and being the warchief, she could potentially keep that ‘forever in war’ mentality.
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Aren’t most Alliance heroes iLevel 1000000000000000 already? What’s the big deal?
And, in the immortal words of Vegeta: “Power levels are BS!”
Alliance characters are only strong until Blizz wants to do something with the Horde. Then they are just punching bags and cannon fodder.
Your corpse-queen would destroy the world if it meant she could avoid her rightly-earned death.
Have you forgotten Lord Illidan’s words, or are you too infatuated with the twisted puppet that wears the rotting skin of your Ranger-General to remember we exist to protect Azeroth?
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I think we mostly want her dead. Think of it as DM error.
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If I could weaponize the amount of cringe in this post, the war would be over in a single strike.
There’s a special place for orcs such as him… A waitress in Goldshire.
Sylvanus gets the artifact back. There’s a screenshot with her holding the recharge blade.
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Please Illidan was just a tool. He left us to play eternal warden. Be grateful we helped you with the bargain Kaelthas made. We defeated the Legion.
Besides I died once already so cant blame Sylvanas for not wanting to die. Twisting Nether is not a fun place cant imagine the darklands.
Agreed. I may be fighting for the Horde but I do not enjoy or see eye to eye with the current Warchief. Sylvanas is absolutely insane and I wouldn’t be surprised if we kill her in this expansion or the next. She’s been presented, so far in BFA, as a cartoon caliber type of evil that needs to be taken care of.
I don’t understand why people hated Garrosh for everything he’s done to everybody including the horde, but, the same people are all for Sylvanas and what she’s doing.
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- You mean the orcs would be taken care of? That’s the only thing garrosh wanted to protect.
- She wants power and being “leader” of the horde gives her that. If you knew any of the lore you would know that if anyone in the horde needed protection, but were of no use to her, she would let them die.
She will let everyone die. What has she done for the horde so far besides make enemies with the universe!?
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The arguments are right out of cold war history (interesting in a way calling it “history” when it was such a part of my real life for so long).
First war is inevitable because of the basic conflicts between the two alliances
NATO vs Warsaw Pact/China becomes Horde vs Alliance
“I believe the exiles of Gilneas will never forgive the Horde for driving them away. I believe the living humans of Lordaeron think it is blasphemy that my people still hold their city. I believe the ancient divide between our allies in Silvermoon and their kin in Darnassus is not easily mended.”
“I believe the Darkspear tribe hasn’t forgotten who drove them from their islands,” she continued. “I believe every orc your age remembers being imprisoned for years in filthy camps, wallowing in despair and surviving on human scraps. I believe every human remembers the tales of the terrible Horde that caused so much destruction in its first invasion, and I believe they blame every orc for that, no matter what your people have done to redeem yourselves. And I remember very well that I and my first Forsaken were once loyal Alliance citizens. We died for that banner, and our reward was to be hunted as vermin. I believe that there will be no permanent peace with the Alliance—not unless we win it on the battlefield on our terms. And believing that, answer this, Saurfang: what use is delaying the inevitable?”
Then the assumption that the new weapons could wipe out both sides effectively ending civilization, coupled with the assumption that an Alliance first strike means an Alliance victory and an end to the Horde:
What if the Hord holds off and the Alliance strikes first?
“You are the only living creature I know who has conquered both Stormwind and Orgrimmar, Saurfang. You say a direct attack on Stormwind is impossible with our forces today. Is the same true for the Alliance? Do we have enough natural defenses in Orgrimmar to repel a surprise assault?”
“Then the Horde charges into battle and dies honorably that day, because there will be nothing else left for us but a slow death inside these walls.”
Azurite weapons subbing for fusion weapons for the MAD scenario
“ … Azurite sightings are coming in from across the world, Saurfang. We still do not know its full potential, nor does the Alliance. We only know that it will create a new generation of warfare. What will war look like in twenty years? In a hundred?”
“And by all the spirits, Sylvanas was right, no matter how strongly Saurfang tried to deny it. War would come again one day, and if both factions were strong, that war would raze entire nations. How many different peoples on Azeroth would become extinct in that fight?”
“If a hundred years of peace ends with a war that annihilates both sides, it was not a worthy goal.”
So to summarize:
The choices are; Alliance strikes first without the nukes, Horde is defeated, Horde strikes first and the divide and conquer strategy succeeds, Alliance is defeated, maintain the piece until both sides have nukes, both sides annihilated unless the prospect of annihilation itself restrains all factions.
The MAD scenario is, in fact, Saurfang’s only counter to Sylvanas’ logic, he agrees with all her assessments, but his idea of honor and his PTSD convince him that it is more honorable to risk the MAD scenario.
Whoever is writing this stuff may see Saurfang as the “good guy” because in real life it has become popular to believe that the MAD strategy worked in the real world, we haven’t had a nuclear war after all, but as written I have to agree with Sylvanas’ logic.
Real world predigest often translates into in game role play.
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It is still not a MAD scenario since it seems the Alliance has the upper hand: the Horde would not be able to take SW because of its location; however, the Alliance can just surround Org and let everyone inside starve: they do not need to take the city itself just virtually disconnect it from the world (note that this makes somewhat no sense considering portals but I guess, like telecommunications in RL, could be jammed).
This looks more like a preemptive strike instead because an Alliance move to take Org does not require taking the city itself to achieve victory, the Horde cannot do the same about SW.
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Preemptive strike (first strike) by the Alliance should they come to the same conclusion (i.e. that delaying the inevitable war risks moving it into the “nuclear” era). It does, however, show Saurfang’s idea of “honor” the good old “death before dishonor” paradigm whereby keeping an honorable piece at the risk of Armageddon may be preferable to an unprovoked first strike and certainly to the atrocity of the near genocide at the tree.
Accepting the MAD scenario is still the only possible excuse for Saurfang’s actions (or of course just bad writing, but my RP doesn’t take that into account when choosing sides).
Obviously not an exact match to the real world cold war, but IMHO the plot is influenced by it.
Amongst the differences; the Nukes are seen as inevitable, but are not yet actually deployed, and apparently Magni Bronzebeard is the only thing close to a disarmament advocate; the Alliance and Horde both grabbing as much Azurite as they can in an arms race and nobody but Magni considering healing the planet.
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Wow, very well written.
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