So how about they rebuild Alliance settlements in contested zones (like Southshore or even Theramore) while revamping the entire zone?
Because, as I’ve already said twice, I am tired. of. that. It’s not fun, and it’s not satisfying.
They’ve already told us “once and for all” that it was never that in the first place, and furthermore that Thrall was a terrible leader whose vision shouldn’t have been trusted anyway. They completely broke that fantasy.
…so remove literally everyone except the Vulpera then?
(this statement may come off as a mere joke. it is sadly more serious than that)
I think thats fine but the Horde should be getting settlements in contested areas too.
Both factions deserve a rebuilding, not just Alliance.
The Alliance problem is not solely that the Horde destroyed their cities and killed its people. Its also that the Horde was responsible. Even if we have a rebuild South Shore for example. How would it be that the same people responsible for turning it into a sludge field are right across the road in Tarren Mill?
So you want the evil Horde to just remain in the Horde still do as they did before?
Then I am puzzled at what you want.
You don’t want a redeemed Horde and you don’t want an evil horde that hurts everyone around them. What do you want?
They are the only race I support a full scale Alliance genocide upon them.
Damn furries…
But more seriously, blame a small group of Horde, take them out, absolve the Horde and introduce cool new characters while you do it.
We have moved far beyond the parameters of the original discussion. You asked what the Alliance could get in exchange if Sylvanas doesn’t die, not how to fix all the problems the Alliance has. Goodness knows that the survival of Sylvanas doesn’t fix all the Horde’s problems, so it’s unfair to ask for all your problems to be solved in exchange for that one story beat.
Maybe you should tell me what you’d like the Alliance to get in exchange if Sylvanas isn’t killed off.
I want the world of Vanilla back, where the world was truly grey and both sides had their good and bad points. Yes, I know I probably can’t have it.
You can only do that so many times before it starts to become tedious and/or ridiculous. We have reached that point.
Frankly, I don’t get why you think it would be fun for us to do that over and over and over.
Someone to answer for what was done. If its not Sylvanas then make it this shadow organization that both players can participate in taking down.
So Alliance’s problem was never with the Horde itself but the bad individuals that had in infiltrated it.
We can blame these individuals… this organization for everything bad in the Horde since the existence of Garrosh.
I think we can try.
Thats what I want back too.
I agree but the thing is from the Alliance perspective this was never done. We keep getting promised that it gets done but next week its the same issue again.
What if we have an explanation why this keeps happening? An organization that makes sure the evil horde keeps rising over and over. Who are they? If the Horde is sick then lets find it and cut it out.
At the end of BFA we FINALLY saw some people get locked up. Well lets see what happens to them. Maybe they break out, maybe they try to re-organize and we have to stop them.
The thing I see is the Horde letting things get so incredibly bad that we have another civil war on our hands. And when its over… nothing happens.
No one is brought to justice. No one is locked away. No one answers for anything that has happened.
We just get more promises. Well no more promises. Lets take care of this before it becomes another faciton war.
We can have quests to expose corrupt horde politicians, cultists and etc… No more civil war. We are just taking down an evil organization within the Horde. Maybe the Horde can have a Lady Prestor moment of their own in this world revamp.
Should we call this the “It was Eitrigg All Along” solution?
Please note, I am joking. I don’t want to turn Eitrigg evil. I like Eitrigg.
haha pretty much.
Maybe another dreadlord masquerating as someone else.
Immortality back for the Night Elves.
Illidan was never Redeemed, in the end it was even clearly shown that his family even dismissed his “last wish”
I hate that you’re probably right.
It has been my perception, from back as far as Warcraft 3, that the Nelfs tended to be more of an Amazon culture. All the rank and file fighters are female; the Sentinel army, the wardens, the priestesses. Tyrande is a mystery to me. Supposedly High Priestess of Elune but she uses a bow and doesn’t otherwise seem to have any shadow/disc/holy powers. The druids seem to be predominately male, and the shopkeepers are about split down the middle. I don’t know that matriarchy is the right term though after the fall of Aszhara. Perhaps more like an oligarchy of priestesses and druids. I don’t perceive Tyrande as a strong character. Sylvanas is, although to me her actions put her more on par with Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot. The redemption arc I’m seeing in this story seems like the “I was only following orders” type of thing. For myself, I don’t see letting her off the hook but, considering how the story has been fudged, it wouldn’t surprise me if they have Tyrande forgive her.
Matriarchy is the right term. The Devs themselves use it in reference to the Kaldorei, and the druids play no role in Governance. In fact, Kaldorei druids must answer to the authority of the Sisterhood. Being neutral does not absolve them from that female dominated hierarchy.
I do not understand this. Sylvanas is easily goaded into action, she is rash and irrational, and those fits when she doesn’t get her way. Meanwhile, Tyrande can shut people down with a simple threat. “Only the Goddess may forbid me anything.” is her most famous line.
Sylvanas is a sad, tortured soul, he whole identity is victimhood. Tyrande refuses to be a Victim.
Okay, let’s go with Matriarch for the moment. So Tyrande as High Priestess is in charge of all Nelfs including Archdruid Staghelm. Their safety and well-being is her responsibility, yet, on her watch, orcs continuously encroached in Aszhara and Ashenvale setting the stage for the massacre at Astranaar, Darkshore and Teldrassil. She did absolutely nothing to prevent this tragedy from happening even though, as matriarch, she should have done something. Instead, the Sentinel Army was at the other end of the continent and the only one who tried to stop the Horde was Malfurion who failed.
Tyrande blames Elune for what happened and demands the power of the Night Warrior. To me, this bit (and your remark that she said “only the Goddess may forbid me anything”) demonstrates her petulance as well as her being entrenched in the paradigm of dependency, i.e., it’s Elune’s fault, not hers, that the Nelfs are getting beat up. Someone who behaves in a childish manner is not, imo, a strong character and I don’t see any other way to view her given the way she’s behaved.
Staghelm was never in charge. He had influence, but no official authority.
And on Sylvanas’ watch, the Scarlet Crusade garrisoned several holdings in the heart of her territory, as well as the Gilneas Liberation Front.
Blizzard is going to make sure there is conflict in every zone, so it doesn’t really matter.
Elune is not an Abrahamic god, the relationship is different. Reverence for the Gods is not so common in Pagan faiths, I imagine the same is true in this case. I wouldn’t read to much into it.
I fail to perceive any efficacy in your counterpoints to my position. We’ll just have to agree to disagree about Tyrande.
Amusingly Warcraft III did have Druids as part of the leadership of the Night Elves, and even called Malfurion the spiritual leader of the Night Elves.
But nonetheless the Night Elves are matriarchal.
I believe this is the argument that even though we are told they are a matriarch it’s contradicted in the games.
That doesn’t seem to be the argument being made? Illystra has made a lot of commentary on Tyrande’s handling of her leadership, yet that ironically only reinforces the fact of Tyrande leading. And beyond Tyrande, even the Druids and Malfurion ultimately seek guidance from Elune.
This is tough for me to swallow, because people who like (or love a character) dont typically start hating that character when the story gets inconsistent. People dont suddenly hate Wolverine because a graphic novel has him doing weird stuff that seems out of character. You like Wolverine or you dont. And its ok to hate Sylvanas, but citing story inconsistencies seems like grasping for justification where none is needed.
Its also super ok to not like strong female characters, not everyone enjoys a dommy mommy. It’s dumb that people get shamed for not liking “strong” females like its some relic of the Mad Men era that toxic males can’t let go of.
When will people realize that it’s not about the character being a strong female character, it’s about the actions she has committed.
That’s the crux, that’s the crime and the unforgivable, you don’t think any better of Garrosh, or Arthas, it’s just that no one discusses that they are evil, in sylvanas case people do.