They didn’t, though. Old them did.
I guess I fundamentally disagree. They should still end up in that cell and fantasize about all the people they could save by being a firefighter. Let them be released at the age of 85 when life has passed them by.
I fundamentally disagree. There is no old and new. Its the same person, just because they think better that doesn’t undo what they did.
Don’t play Destiny 2 then. One of the main characters of late is someone who fits this description. That being Uldren Sov. Now known as The Crow since he became a Lightbearer.
Played the first one for three months before getting bored.
I doubt I will ever get into that game.
In your scenario, that person’s brain was rewired. Our brains make us who we are.
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I understand that Doness and even with that rewiring I still hold the same opinion.
Its actually better because now they understand what they have done and their punishment is even more effective.
One of the key aspects of Lightbearers is that they have no memory of their past life. Some can regain those memories, such as Cayde 6 and Ana Bray through external means but for most they don’t. And because of this, one of the rules of the Vanguard is that you should not judge a newly made Lightbearer because of what they did in their past life. Which is a problem for Crow as he killed Cayde 6 at the start of the Forsaken expansion in his past life.
Now should Crow be punished for what his past life did? There are some who believe that, such as Petra and Lord Saladlin. But there are others like Zavala who is willing to let the past be the past. As seen by the ending cinematic of Season of the chosen. Which is when Crow is revealed to everyone to be Uldren Sov. Our PC, “Orisis” and a few others (like The Spider) knew Crows identity beforehand.
In season of the lost, Crow finds out what he did in his past life thanks to Savathun… who was Orisis this whole time (Season of the Hunt onwards). While he is angry that we (the PC) were one of the ones who killed him, the other being Petra, he understands why we did it. And has no ill will towards us. Since we freed him from the Spider, welcomed him into the Vanguard and vouched for him following his reveal.
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I don’t think it’s quite that simple. I do think that there should be some sort of atonement for what they did, whether to those effected, or to others in similar positions. And I think if someone is truly reformed, they will feel compelled to do so anyway, because it only feels right.
I don’t think it’s as simple as “old me vs. the new me”. I don’t think Sylvanas is instantly absolved because she’s cured of her malady. Unfair as it may be, I do think that there is some burden of responsibility on those people who are reformed to make things right.
This is why Sylvanas is submitting herself to Tyrande’s judgment, after all.
The problem I have with that though is that we all know that it’s going to be underwhelming and that she will do no actual atonement.
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It’s not about simple reformation. Smallioz was talking about a complete rewiring of someone’s brain.
I guess that this is the contentious issue here.
Where you believe good actions work towards making amends as a whole.
While I believe there is nothing that can be done because of the irreversible loss the victim has suffered.
You can’t kill someone and then save someone else and then pat yourself on the back for righting the cosmic scales. But this is purely subjective, so not worth debating in any serious capacity.
That’s what I’m talking about. Typically, people who tend to do things as horrible as murdering people have something wrong with their brains. The more we learn about the brain the more we learn about how trauma scars thought processes.
If there was a magical pill that could change all that to the point that they realize all the wrong they’ve done, I still don’t think they should get off scott free. I think they should be compelled to some sort of community service and parole.
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Which is interesting as I have provided an example of that happening (kinda). Waiting on a response from him about that.
Should Crow be held accountable for what he did as Uldren? Even though until recently, he had no memory of what he did and upon learning about it, is horrified that he actually did that.
Thank god Crow never ended up his sisters claws. She is responsible for what Uldren did since she made him feel dependent on her. And when she “died” for this “plan” of hers, she did not tell him that she was fine and just watched Riven corrupt and manipulate him. Ikora points all of this out when Mara yells at her about who she should blame for Crows current condition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q580vIfS1xU
It is telling that Ikora is standing up for Crow, considering she was the one who wanted to send the full might of the Vanguard to the Reef to kill Uldren.
In the case of Sylvanas her brain has not been fully rewired back to before she was raised as undead. The Kyrians do have the methods for that, but it would also have to be something the fused Sylvanas would have to choose for herself.
No, but killing the person who did it doesn’t bring back those who were killed either. Neither does imprisoning them for life.
I think the most tragic thing to realize is that no matter what, the universe was always going to conspire for that to happen to begin with. Everything since the beginning of the universe was building to these small tragedies that effect our daily lives.
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It does not bring them back true but they took away life. Why should they freely live theirs?
I don’t think capital punishment is civilized, but this person should rot away in prison for their entire life. Imagining what could have been if they didn’t do what they did.
I don’t even like the partial sentences, like why is the life of multiple people worth just 10 or 20 years? Is somehow the criminal’s time on this earth more precious than the victims?
I don’t care if it was memory loss, brain rewired, magic pill.
They did those things and they have to pay for it. No amount of “good” will be enough, so its not even worth trying. Stick them in a prison cell and throw away the key.
@ Denona. Does this answer your question?
Why does it feel like I’m being ignored?
I agree with that in the case that is reserved for those people who cannot be reformed. We’ll always have a different opinion on this though, which makes something like reforming the justice system in light of new neuroscience incredibly difficult. I think it is necessary, though.
They can be reformed in the prison. Read books and teach classes. Idk, knit socks for the orphans, but they should remain in their cage.