Even if Doness provides the evidence for it. You will ignore it because it will go against your biases.
Like you did with me throughout this thread.
I meant Kreever, not Sylvanas. Amadis linked it earlier in thread.
It doesn’t say it was a child, actually. I took that at face value, my apologies.
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Exactly. Recognizing that you were wrong. Apologizing for being wrong and changing your behaviour to PROVE that you are being genuine are the cornerstones of a great redemption arc.
I would say that it uses the term “girl” when describing her would imply that she was a child. Generally you use the term girl to refer to a female child. Although it can be used to describe someone as being childish or lesser.
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“Girl” is used in some phrases, but she’s a woman.
Sylvanas never expirimented on children. She did however, take human captives from the farms around Tirisfall as well as capture and torture Scarlet Crusade members.
She’s still evil, but she’s not as evil as this misconception makes her out to be, and the spreading of false information is wrong.
What you have to keep in mind about the way Arthas was set up was this chapter immediately precedes the scene where Arthas first meets Ranger General Sylvanas in battle. Where her heroism is in stark opposition to her undead self, " Sylvanas yearned to simply strike, to take the enemy unawares, but honor forbade it. There would be no tales sung of how Ranger General Sylvanas Windrunner defended her homeland by underhanded means." This dichotomy between these polarized opposites of her character have always existed.
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You think the Horde (and Sylvanas) apologizing and rebuilding what they have destroyed like UN aid workers redeems them to their victims?
I don’t think if she managed to bring them all back to life she would be forgivable for what she put them through for her own goals.
The hypocrisy of this statement is beautiful.
Renautus: “Sit perfectly still (to Doness), only I may spread false information. And I will block anyone who proves that I do this”.
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That’s fine. My opinion is different though. I would accept the efforts of even the most inhumane criminals if we found a way to fix what was wrong with their brains and they’re willing to do something to make things right. I don’t think death absolves anyone of anything. My belief is that it is primitive thinking and is the other side of the coin as martyrdom. If someone is dead, they can’t make things right again.
Like I said, I don’t think anyone should have to accept her afterwards and like her. I think a lot of characters should still hate her even despite that. But she should at least reform and rebuild.
I don’t think that will happen though, because Blizzard doesn’t want to commit to any sort of reformation deals.
The girl’s age is not mentioned as far as I can tell. But still evil regardless, yes.
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I respect your opinion but I will voice that in my opinion these actions serve nothing but make the aggressor walk away with a free conscious after doing the unthinkable should Blizzard think of this solution to fix the Horde’s image.
Like lets take a Night Elf family of which only one person survived. Horde comes in, unblights the village, regrows the trees, unpoisons the water and make them a house to live in. How should this victim react? They lost everyone they loved to Sylvanas and these Horde soldiers.
Thank them? Forgive them? Invite them over some Moonberry juice? I can’t reconcile this, I don’t think this does anything beside make the Night Elves and Alliance even more incapable than they have already been shown that they can’t even take care of their own rebuilding and need Horde’s help to do it.
More salt on deep wounds that this won’t close.
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Yes but there’s a huge difference between “woman” and “child” she’s identified as a woman.
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If someone is willing to put the work in to rebuild what they destroyed, I don’t think they’ll ever have a free conscious from what they did.
They don’t have to do anything. Not thank them or anything like that. They can still hate them afterwards. But the one thing they can’t do is deny the effort in the first place.
I’m not even using this in just the Warcraft sense. I mean this also in real terms, for real criminals. If we were able to magically fix the brains of violent criminals and reform them, then I think it would be unethical not to do so and not to put them to work in helping to heal what they did, if not for those they effected directly, for others in similar positions.
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Someone should tell Renautus tbh. No wonder she likes Sylvanas. Both of them get off scout free when they hurt people.
I mean she considered me a friend until I called her out on her toxic behaviour. Suddenly I became public enemy no.1. Even though others like Doness and Amadis did the same thing. Yet they are not being lied about.
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If a hypothetical murder burned my house and got my family killed due to their negligence or selfishness.
I don’t care if their brain is rewired and they are good person now and want to make amends. They destroyed lives and so they have to answer for it. They should be thrown in a prison to and never come out for the lives they have taken.
Rebuilding my house is not their place or a service I want or need. I don’t want them anywhere near me.
You might have a different philosophy but that is how I feel and if Blizzard tried to do this with the Horde I will find it incredibly gross and in bad taste.
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But not large enough reason to not hate Sylvanas for.
If their brain is rewired, then evil them is already dead.
Hate her all you want just don’t over-exaggerate her crimes. What she actually did is enough, no need for embellishment.
I don’t really care. They still took lives away and responsible.
Why should this person live their life freely while my family is dead and everyone related to them is suffering their loss?
Let them waste away their finite life on this planet in a concrete cell. Thats a fitting punishment until they meet their maker.
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Preaching to the choir on this one.
Maybe practice what you preach.
Yeah I’m not saying that you should have to forgive and like that person. I’m not saying that punitive action shouldn’t be taken. But if that hypothetical murderer does that, and we find out that their brain is actually deficient in several areas causing them to be hyper violent and impulsive, if we could fix that, then it would be a greater good for everyone if they spent their time working for the good of others. Not just the people they wronged, but for other people to.
If that hypothetical murderer did that, and was cured of their evilness, and then went on to become a fire fighter and save hundreds of other lives from a fire, I consider that atonement. It doesn’t make what they did right, it doesn’t absolve anything that happened, but it’s better than the alternative that is just retribution.
You are acknowledging her crimes at least, as well as have acknowledged them as reason to hate her, so that is good enough for me.
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