No doubt about it, she’s poorly written and executed. she doesn’t come from a position of strength or might, but of a coward that’s always on the run or having others do her bidding much like whatever it is she serves!
When Sylvanas continues to go unpunished and gets a redemption story in Shadowlands cuz female character
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Yeah that explains a lot. Takes a special kind to think anything about Blizzard writing has been good or made a lick of sense past Cataclysm. After that it has been some pretty try hard fanfiction where they often warp their characters to match the story they want even if the characters past doesn’t show they would have acted that way. Case in point lets begin with Garrosh’s stark contrast in MoP versus Cataclysm a massive change in just a single expansion.
Garrosh speaks greatly against Sylvanas for trying to save her people by raising new undead. Calling it disgusting because it is unnatural.
Then in MoP using the powers of an Old God wich is also unnatural. Why would a character so strongly against the unnatural turn around and do the same?
In Cataclysm he dropped a Orc off the ledge of a mountain for killing children and innocent civilians even in a war. But in MoP he drops a bomb on Theramore not only killing off innocent children in this universe but across a expanse of an unknown number of others. Where is his precious honor at that point? Why the sudden change? Like I said bad writers. Simular things has happened to Sylvanas but she slowly got warped by terrible writings in books by Fanfiction writer Christie Golden and that garbage made it into the game.
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As far as it can be seen, the Void and the Old Gods aren’t too fond of the Undead. Which probably means they can’t control her. And it really seems her goals are her own.
Not so much. He used the power of the Heart of Y’Shaarj, and then absorbed it. When he was defeated the power went poof.
I mean sure, but with the announcement of Shadowlands kind of debunks it now. Trust me, anyone who’s anyone lore wise was looking at the Sylv Vs Saurfang fight and calling hax when she was able to block his attacks.
Never thought he had any mystery powers, but he had a lot of influence in the Horde. But if we’re talking about how he got to AU Draenor you can blame Wrathion and Kairozdormu for that.
Honestly I thought they did a pretty poor job with Sylvanas starting with the Before the Storm book and this whole expansion. They turned a character that we never understood her motives into a mustache twirling villain.
As for Garrosh. Yeah fair enough. But I do remember a lot of people hating the Varian and Garrosh “bro fights” they’d have with one another.
Yeah the opening of Shadowlands is a bit funky. They really need to explain how the breaking of the Helm of Domination ties with it. Since, least if I remember the armor was infused with Ner’zhuls soul way after Azeroth was even created.
As for Garrosh, going back to the Wrathion and Kairozdormu, pretty much explains how that all worked, and they hinted at it pretty strongly in MoP with Timeless Isles.
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And if you payed any attention it was wrathion who opened it
At this point I don’t even care what happens anymore story wise, as long as she’s removed. It’s been such a gong show for ages. I just want Sylvanas to finally get written off as dead and move on with some real story plots that don’t involve her…I’ve suffered through several expansions hearing about her.
See, it’s not the same as hating on garrosh, who you sympathized for to some degree. He wanted a world free of the alliance and wanted to rule the horde. But from the stories of his father and other orcs around him, he had some gravitas to WHY he wanted to do that. After the second war his people were hunted down, killed and thrown into camps to rot away, many as slaves, on top of the wars with the alliance. So while he was still a tyrant, he had motives that were , in my opinion, a realistic point of view for a villain.
Sylvanas ‘ motivation is bitterness and loathing cause she died and was brought back to life, and now wants to kill every living thing to make it all even. For me, it’s odd that she went from someone who wanted to offer safe haven for the undead and help the horde fight it’s corner, to wanting to mass murder and genocide everyone seemingly over the duration of one expansion.
I just hope she dies in an unredeemable way and does not get kerrigan’d out as some noble universe saving heroine. Which we all know will Happen anyway…
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Sylvanas ended up being somewhat different to Garrosh in terms of motivation and end result, but the process of getting there was far too close to Garrosh for comfort. Blizzard had something of a PR failure in this department and needed a better story writing team to pull it off, but it wasn’t quite the calamity it could have been.
I’m told this wasn’t even an intended direction for Garrosh’s character, and that he was intended to be a two-dimensional baddie from the start.
I don’t … agree with that assessment, but seeing what they turned him into, it’d make sense. Little bit sad, though, as that moment showed he had a lot of potential. Gave the impression he was trying to do the right thing, but going about it the wrong way - which is a hallmark of most great, memorable villains, save for the occasional Joker.
On that note, I do wish we could have some more interesting villains, in general. Arthas wasn’t the best-written character in fiction, ever, but the fact that his rise and fall happened because of an overwhelming sense of duty, and to do right, was relatable and entertaining to follow.
Not every villain has to be a fallen hero, of course - WoW’s sort of worn out that trope in general - but giving them some more interesting, relatable motives would make it a lot less tiring when they hog the screen for a couple hours.
It really doesn’t help that a lot of Sylvanas’ nebulous motivations are told to us, and not shown, unless you read a novel.
Did you even raid SoO? He used the heart of Yog to empower himself. Everything OP said was accurate…
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and people wonder why i hate sylvanas.
Where he manipulated his father into not following Gul’dan but still creating the Iron Horde to invade our Azeroth for his own gains. Garrosh wasn’t the only reason for WoD but he was a key part of the reason.
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The difference between Garrosh and Sylvanas is that Garrosh did nothing wrong.
Also Garrosh had what’s called a story arc. It was a hackney one but it was one at least. Sylvanas…well, I’m still waiting for the shoe to drop on that one.
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BFA was just Darkspear Rebellion but worse.
Heart of Y’shaarj, but still an Old God’s heart.
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only difference is that garrosh had a legit reason to turn bad boy orc-boss…
Sylvanas?
Well she’s like a bagel with mold on it…
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No he didn’t.
The second you start sipping Old God Juice for your motives is the second your aims might not be justified after all.
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That is another thing right? Garrosh was strongly against the drinking of the fel blood even before Warlords. Yet he goes and drinks old god juice? Because that is a big difference right?
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Wrong way around.
Blizzard admitted Garrosh was originally supposed to get a “heroic redemption arc”, hence his honourable actions at certain key moments, but that was aborted purely because the main team writing that particular story literally just didn’t communicate with the secondary team who were busy turning him into a one-note villain.
In no uncertain terms, the entire story of MoP and WoD only ended up happening because Blizzard’s left hand didn’t know what its right hand was doing, and they just decided to roll ahead with it anyway.
So much for Blizzard’s claim of writing two expansions ahead, because they didn’t even know what they were going to do with Garrosh, one of their central figures, until they’d sabotaged their own story while they were in the middle of writing it.
This sums Blizzard up as a whole pretty succinctly, and if you’ve ever felt like Blizzard’s just making it all up on the fly with very little thought to continuity or consistency, you’re not wrong.
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never said they were justified.
just said he had a reason of turning all bad…
he literally was been nothing but discredited moment he got appointed as warchief, got forced onto there by thrall and kinda had to deal with so much specially from goblins polluting the waters.
The difference was that drinking fel blood was to enslave yourself to the Legion but Garrosh thought he had the will power to truly control the power of an Old God.
And frankly, he was able to stay in control. We don’t know for how long that would be true because we beat him, but it’s worth consideration. He saw himself as the master of the power, not the other way around.
Having a reason is having a justification.
Garrosh made mistakes and earned the skepticism he got from the Horde’s leaders. He wasn’t forced into anything.
Reading all these responses I can tell just how little people know about Garrosh and Sylvanas. It’s laughable really, watching people pretend they know more than they actually do.