BFA/BTS Sylvanas isn’t anything Sylvanas.
There is so much to her that is just conveniently stripped to make her the unabashed, mustache twirling evil guy. This isn’t to say she wasn’t ever evil, she absolutely was, but to the lengths in which she’s portrayed? No. BFA Sylvanas betrays every action she’s ever taken, every internal monologue she’s had with herself and the overall direction of the Forsaken.
Very cool, Kanye. Very cool. Thank you.
You see, I don’t know if I can really agree with that. Even if she does have self-serving intent, it doesn’t inherently make her evil, or even evil-leaning. Selfishness is definitely a negative trait, but I think it’s a bit far-fetched to compare the path her characterization has taken to Hitler. I don’t remember the time when Hitler tried to personally take it upon himself to rescue Hindenburg when he was being shot at by allied forces from another dimension.
I suppose this then makes me ask a follow-up question. Just how evil was she prior to BfA? Aside from her battling Gilneans for dominance during Cataclysm, the most evil thing I remember Sylvanas being remotely associated with was the Blight. Specifically the Forsaken Blight that was being developed during Wrath, and deployed at the Wrathgate- but even that was revealed to be a plot by treacherous Apothecaries.
I’m of the opinion that it’s impossible to trace any kind of character arc for Sylvanas that makes sense because she has been written too many different ways by too many different writers with too many different ideas over the years. I tend to split her into three, maybe four different versions:
Would be just me thinking but wouldn’t they have redeemed Varimathras if Sylvanas was going to be villain batted in that next expansion?
This is precisely the issue. I wouldn’t mind if she was villainous from the beginning, but she wasn’t. Instead we’re treated to more inconsistency, which is ironic, because inconsistency is the most consistent part about her characterization.
I don’t know what this means, although I’ve seen the phrase thrown around on the forums a few times.
Fair enough, it would depend on the person. I view Sylvanas’s situations with Teldrassil or the desolate council to have no reason and thus they only made Sylvanas act this way to become the villain.
Man this has been ongoing since after Wrath with Edge of Night.
I fell in love with the Forsaken and positively adored the Banshee Queen. I was hoping she was going to turn out like a more photogenic version of George Washington - this revolutionary leader who didn’t even want power per say but was super successful and now all these people love her and she’s the most qualified to lead.
I just sorta assumed Windrunner was going to do for the living dead what Thrall did for Orcs - why even make the Queen of the Undead a sexy elf lady if that’s not the plan here?
And maybe some writers still thought it was the plan. She’s cruel to the Alliance in Silverpine but she seems to adore the Forsaken. She sends you to collect their dog tags so their fallen’s names shan’t be forgot as well as rescue missions. There’s even Forsaken who opine ya know, maybe war’s not for me I’m going to go back to mushroom farming and they say this openly. Juxtaposed against the Orcs who are terrified Hellscream will execute them for their failure Windy comes off as a more caring leader unafraid to charge with her people into battle.
But that, like Garrosh in Stonetalon, was an oversight. A beautiful dream that vanishes upon waking. She’s been on this path since Edge of Night. At best we get some twist where not unlike Illidain she turns out to be a secret good guy but at this point I don’t think there’s a point of return. She cut down Forsaken dutifully returning to her for the crime of being exposed to the mere possibility of living outside her. The Alliance had to bury them for Shadow’s sake. At this point I just hope this is dealt with already even if I feel like the kid at the end of Ole’ Yeller.
Not her fault she went rabid but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
What, you don’t buy the 345908235789243589^9d chess She was playing by lying to herself in her own internal dialogue?
She even allowed Darius an option to pull back his forces in exchange for his daughter not turning into an undead. Also that ending implies that the Alliance reclaimed Gilneas. After Darius agrees to pull back his forces, she could’ve easily sent her forces in and kill them. However she doesn’t. In doing so, Godfrey makes his move as he wanted Darius dead.
That alone is one of my main issues with current blizzard (mainly Steve Danuser) saying that she was working with the Jailer since Edge of Night. This is why I hate retcons that change a character so far back. Honestly Sylvanas should’ve sided with the Jailer after Genn stopped her from enslaving Eyir. Since Helya dies soon afterwards as well.
After her death at the hands of Godfrey, Sylvanas knew that the Val’kyr was the best and only way for her and her people to survive. However with the alliance killing another one in Western Plagelands, she only had 4 left (3 killed themselves to bring her back at the end of silverpine). So she wants to learn how to make more. Her remaining Val’kyr tell her about Helya and since her domain is located on the broken isles, she sees the perfect opportunity to sneak her way though. Since the Legion was attacking and we needed to get the pillars of creation. She makes her deal with Helya however Genn stops her. With Helya soon killed in the raid, Trial of Valor, Sylvanas still doesn’t have the knowledge to create more Val’kyr, which act as horcruxes for her. Somehow she learns about the Jailer and the two make a deal. Sylvanas will feed the maw souls and in exchange the Jailer can make her truly immortal. This will fit with her “real” motives behind attacking Teldrassil and starting the whole “fourth war”.
Still have the Jailer being the one who told Vol’jin to make her warchief, but keep that a secret from Sylvanas. Maybe even have some conflict where Sylvanas learns about this and initially rejects his offer until Tyrande kills another Val’kyr. This of course will mean having her motives behind the burning of Teldrassil different. Make it so that it was merely an occupation, but after getting triggered, she burned it down (like the warbringers video implies).
Both of those two options on when Sylvanas and the Jailer make their deal are organic to the story. Her main motivation behind making her deal with the remaining 9 Val’kyr was to avoid being trapped in the maw (that realm where sylvanas was sent to being the maw is the only retcon I actually like from this whole mess). After 3 are killed due to her dying in Cata, the alliance killing 1 soon afterwards, her deal with Helya going belly up and Tyrande killing another one in Darkshore, she only has 3 left (the main Val’kyr took her place in the maw as part of the deal). So Sylvanas has to find a more permanent solution to her whole fear of her afterlife.
Blizzard really needs to reign in their writers and make sure they are all on the same page. It is why I don’t really like it when writers get asked questions on their own during events like Blizzcon. You have no idea what sort of BS they will say that will somehow make its way to be “official” canon.
The question I have about a “redemption” twist … can you really justify what she did in BfA?
Like, the woman instigated a World War designed exclusively to create as large a death toll as possible. Her choice to burn the tree was apparently designed exclusively to create a no-way out situation for both sides. She then recruited ARs to up the population of available bodies; and compel the Alliance to do the same. Almost all of her tactics were seemingly focused on prolonging and escalating the conflict as long as she could. All so she could feed an untold number of souls to an afterlife she herself is trying to avoid.
Yeah … it would be real hard to “redemption twist” this lol!
I remember reading someone on here say that Sylvanas isn’t a character anymore, she’s a plot device. That’s really the most succinct description of her I’ve seen as of late.
I’ve said it before but that kind of blatant obfuscation has annoyed me in the two times I’ve ever seen it(Heavy Rain and here). Nobody thinks like they’ve got something to hide in their own head. It’s just bad writing.
It depends vastly on who she’s being written to be redeemed to.
If it’s everyone on Azeroth, that’s a problem.
If it’s the Horde at large, it would take a while but still be much more probable than both factions.
If it’s the Forsaken, I don’t imagine too many will really care about the tree or the war or any of that, you really just have to fix the mistake of 8.2.5 (barring future patch content for the time being) so it’s a lot less of a hassle.
Ahh the monthly sylvanas was retconned, from the people who dont understand the story thread
Ahh the daily Katiera is unable to read or employ critical thinking skills post
What, the OP literally doesnt understand why sylvanas helped out in legion, like isnt it obvious? Sargaras cleaving the planet in half would be bad for her and the jailer.
The one attempt I will make to engage you in good faith on this topic:
Many people, in many places, have pointed out the wild inconsistency in the writing of this character. Pellex has provided a good summary of that in this very thread. If you cannot admit that at the very least Sylvanas has suffered from wild swings in personality based on who is writing her, then no further discussion is possible.
So what? There’s a difference between evil that makes sense, is funny, and/or fits within the Horde story without ruining it and the absolute garbage fire we got in BfA.
Yes, Sylvanas has been evil/naughty in the past. But BfA Sylvanas is like if Skeletor just whipped around and assassinated He-man’s pet tiger, then blew up a city, then like…just started hating on his minions until they said “screw you, dude” and left. (I’ve never watched He-man.) Basically her evil just became detrimental to an enjoyable story and started getting treated way too seriously, when in the past most Forsaken evil stuff was treated with a very darkly humorous overtone.
Just saying “she’s always been evil” completely overwrites all the complaints Horde fans have. Ethel, I like you, but that’s a cop-out comment that contributes next to nothing to the conversation and frankly invalidates a lot of fans’ feelings.
What she has done in BfA was entirely unprecedented and detrimental to the plot. I don’t care about whether or not her character was consistent. Do you think it would be perfectly acceptable for Blizzard to never allow the worgen to reclaim Gilneas simply because it would be consistent with their established lore that Gilneas is Plagued and borderline uninhabitable?
But alex said he was writing her its no secret that sylvanas always had mood swings
it really isnt if she is trying to free the jailer lol