Because no sane person could have guessed that Calia would be manipulated by space windchimes into calling out Sylvanas, nor that Sylvanas would respond by butchering every Forsaken civilian there.
She’s the legal heir, whether Sylvanas and her toadies like it or not. That’s the only claim that matters in a monarchy.
You’re right, I’m confusing this with a different thread, but:
She sings for and mourns the people that died in Quel’thalas, she gives a war cry convincing enough to make even Saurfang cheer, she cared about the forsaken, and now that she’s warchief, she clearly cares for the Horde.
I was waiting for this. It’s undeniable how much she cares for her former homeland. One of the dreadlords even states to one another, that she still has the heart of an elf. However, in the war against the lich king, every body was needed, and blackmail is certainly something necessary for the greater good at times. Lor’themar was indeed being too hesitant, in my opinion.
I don’t mean to be rude, and I understand we are typing quite fast, but please read my whole argument in this thread before saying anything else.
This is now conjecture. Sylvanas as a fact, has the stones to state her opinion. Even in front of dreadlords. “I’ll take part in your coup, but I’ll do so in my own way”
Edit: Sorry, I misunderstood the context, there’s quite an essay going on
She wasn’t forced to go to the grounds though.
And now Blood Elves and Forsaken are core races of the Horde, not allied races.
She cares for her people. That’s simply it. She’s the only one in the game to even lament about it. I can convince you no further about it.
The only true “Heir” would be the son/daughter of Jaina and Arthas. if one exists. A distant cousin of a dead bloodline to a throne abandoned by all allies counts as “Fallen.” Thus she would be a “Fallen Queen,” not a “Queen Heir.” The fact that she had no means to rally the troops of Stormwind (In spite of Lordaeron having helped Stormwind in the past) to Coup Sylvanas BEFORE they joined the Horde, it’s her loss. Her loss is her loss. Sylvanas’ throne, her city, hers to choose. Calia is a loose end that needs to be purged.
(Sorry for so many alt switching…3 post limit is frustrating. can’t afford another month just yet :P)
I know it ain’t my place to jump in, but what monarchy? The rule of Menethil was abolished the moment Arthas sacked Lordaron and killed his people. And with Calia basically peaceing it out where ever she was.
It be quite stupid if a lot of the Forsaken just fell in line and accepted her as their ruler when logically speaking Sylvanas has done more for them.
No more so that some yelling “FOR THE HORDE” is more Patriotism > Pragmatism.
Oooh! We’re using Warcraft III for reference now. You remember that time she promised to return the Lordaeron Capital to Garithos and the Alliance…only to admit seconds later that she was lying? Seems like she tells the truth to everyone, even people she’s using as means to an end, 100% of the time!
Last time I checked “Lament of the Highborne” was referring to the High/Blood Elves…not the Forsaken, which are the People you’ve been claiming (or at least that’s how my Gf reads it after I’ve showed her our…debate) are the ones she cares about while I’m saying that she only views the Forsaken as Expendable Meat Shields (some more capable than others). And last time I checked, The High/Blood Elves of Quel’thalas (whom Sylvanas may or may not care about these days) are not the Undead Citizens or Lordaeron (whom Calia VERY MUCH cares about).
Which totally can’t just be Sylvanas emotionally manipulating them.
She cares so much she forces them to give up their history/burn it, while sending Forsaken to re-education camps if they don’t go along with the brainwashing?
She cares so much, she forced the Horde into a genocidal war that she created, for her own mysterious and evil goals?
So, she uses them for political clout, considers her death in Quel’thalas as her being “a fool”. She only wanted them in the war against the Lich King for personal revenge, she didn’t care that it could lead to the extinction of the Elves, or that they were going through large changes due to Kael’thas’ betrayal and death.
She wasn’t doing for any nonsensical “greater good”, she was doing it for personal revenge and nothing else.
And her immediate response was “murder them all”.
No, Sylvanas really hasn’t. As Before the Storm shows, she’s brainwashed them into being her personal meatshields. Most of the Forsaken just want to die, and were quite angry that Sylvanas, out of pure selfishness, tried to get a bunch of Val’kyr to make them her eternal slaves.
her skin is grey, her morality not
No, she has, this is a fact. She freed them from Arthas, helped them reclaim their rightful lands, prevented them from being genocided by the Alliance and the Scarlet Crusade, helped them killed Arthas and so forth and has helped them defend against foreign invasion.
Calia hasn’t done anything for them. Just because she’s got the last name of the former ruler doesn’t make her automatically give her the right to rule Lordaron when she has shown little care for it.
you can’t say that for sure. MANY of the forsaken wanted to die. MANY OTHERS wanted another chance at life. MANY MORE STILL preferred it over being turned into a Worgen. There are 5 (corrected from 3) different mindsets of the Forsaken, that we know of. There are those who would follow her every whim willingly, those who would question her but still honor a base level of loyalty, those who would backstab her in the battlefield, those who would undermine her authority on a subtler scale, and those who would choose to defect to the enemy. It’s this last group she’s making an example of.
Patriotism is care, is it not?
You do have me there, however she knew very well what Garithos would do, knew he’d be an enemy to her and the literally forsaken free willed people of Lordaeron, and it was an equal claim to the throne. Imagine that dude ruling a nation. In your eyes though, they’re probably equal monsters.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner yells: Children of the Grave, heed my call!
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner yells: In life, we suffered unspeakable tragedies.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner yells: We watched as our homes were razed to the ground.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner yells: We cried out in agony as our families were cut down before our eyes.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner yells: Finally, in the face of such atrocities, we were denied even the release of death.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner yells: Now, we burn this wickerman as a symbol of our victory against old enemies!
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner yells: We paint our faces with the ash to send a message to new enemies - a declaration to those who fear and revile us as monsters.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner yells: To those who would question our place in this world…
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner yells: We are NOT monsters! We are NOT the mindless wretches of a ghoul army!
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner yells: No… we are a force even more terrifying…
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner yells: We are the chill in a coward’s spine…
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner yells: We are the instruments of an unyielding ire…
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner yells: WE ARE THE FORSAKEN!!
In death, they are her people.
Bad and you should feel bad
Koltira, who is considering fraternizing with the Alliance. Admittedly, this is one of her lowest points, and even in my eyes, next to her worst crime of kidnapping and sacrificing a member of the Argent Dawn to restore Nathanos.
Read the thread, please.
Very unconvincing that it would lead to any sort of extinction. If it would, as a former ranger general, she’d know the tactical consequences of them assisting the Horde’s offensive.
Not personal, in fact perhaps national. And very, very necessary.
They committed high treason, and ran to a place potentially void of the consequences of such an action.
The Forsaken have free will. Val’kyr do not affect the mind. If this was true, Derek wouldn’t need to be brainwashed.
She killed hostages, that’s a war crime, as black as they come.
enough said.
Also stop making new threads about the same topic.
Who was held hostage? This is getting hard to keep track of, sorry.
Weapon of mass destruction*
Fixed that for ya. Using atom bombs in every conflict might nip terrorism in the bud, but there’s a reason it doesn’t happen.
She is absolutely evil
No.
A mana bomb is a weapon of mass destruction. This is a crate being flown at your face. Please. Equivalent to a volley of arrows.
Stopped right here, no further reading necessary. Sheesh.
She had won the battle of Darnassus - anyone left inside the city were non combatants… woman, children, elderly ect ect. Perfect hostage material.
She burned them all.
The Alliance refused to evacuate until the very last moment*
And i’m so very sure that there were military forces in the tree. She did not enter Darnassus yet in the cinematic. “Prepare to invade the tree”
Re watch the cinematic - One of our commanders said she won and there were no combatants left inside
I recall that Eulogy mentions they (Alliance) were actively evacuating for quite some time. In fact the mages maintaining the portals were apparently strained from keeping the portals open for so long.