The Horde has constantly decided between honor and survival before which indeed is their core ideals, and she stayed true to the necessary one, especially considering a suicidal general and an out of control temperamental leader such as Baine. Thrall abandoned the traditional rules of his Mak’gora with Garrosh, and also accepted Blood Elves who were infused with Fel magic out of necessity, as well as the Forsaken knowing fully well how they are.
Another instance of survival, saving military lives on both sides to bring a quicker end to the war. She doesn’t want to conquer things for no reason.
She meant them, because she always states her core opinions truthfully. She didn’t say for the Forsaken, she said for the Horde. Her people.
I recall a stalemate between A/H during the events and cinematics. Only because the Calvary joined in during the last minute, UNSUMMONED, did Alliance get an edge. Jaina had no reason to be at the battle. She was too busy hiding in her little “no horde” hole since Legion began to know there was a battle going on in Lordaeron. She probably didn’t even know about Teldrassil until after the battle. Plot armor Sylvanas is nowhere near as cheap as Mary-Sue Jaina.
A weapon of war meant to bring a quicker occupation. Garrosh would be mad if they used it, Garrosh would be even more mad if they lost. They would fight in the streets with stones, as they said. With fanaticism like that, what can you actually do? Not like they raised a white flag, at all.
Well, now there IS something for her to claim. Sylvanas, ironically enough as she’s fond of killing those who outlive their usefulness, has outlived her usefulness. She treats the Forsaken as slaves who exist solely to die shielding her from the Void.
Lordaeron, its people, is loyal to the Horde. It belongs to the Horde. She should have tried to claim it before its people pledged themselves to Sylvanas, after she rebuilt the entire nation from scratch.
Honest question: do you think that just because there is a reason for things, that doesn’t make them evil?
You’re putting the blame for Sylvanas’ atrocities upon the very people she burned alive. Everyone made the assumption that there was enough moral decency in her that she wouldn’t slaughter innocent people, that she wasn’t that evil.
As we can see, everyone was wrong. She really is that much of a monster.
(Besides, where would they have fled to? We’re talking a heavily populated zone, with more people than stormwind and nowhere close enough to flee - the only boat connection to Darnassus was Darkshore, the very place Sylvanas was attacking from - and the boats were being used by the military to try and fight her to begin with.
There aren’t as many or as convenient of portals in the lore as our characters use.)
I wasn’t talking about her declaring war - of all the things she’s done, that is one of the less concerning morally. I was referring to her burning of Teldrassil there. No reason for it justifies exterminating helpless civilians.
Exodar for 400, Alex. Much closer than the nearest Darkshore ship, attached by portal, big enough to fit BILLIONS of people and repaired after the Legion’s Assault. Try again.
Trip to Nordrassil. As for Darkshore and Teldrassil, trip to Stormwind. So much incompetency in the leaders of the Alliance, not evacuating citizens mandatorily first. (spellcheck says mandatorily is wrong, so lack of a better term)
It is an actual towering military installation sitting there ready to siege and retake Darkshore, as well as ready to be reclaimed and port Azerite to Stormwind.
Calia isn’t loyal to the Horde, and therefore she’s a traitor to Lordaeron and her queen.
Sylvanas is loyal to no one except herself, and has blatantly used the Horde as shields or patsies for her evil schemes since Vanilla. Calia, at least, cares for her people. Sylvanas doesn’t.
The incident that we’re refering to was in the Cinematic Trailer for the Whole Expansion.
We are still talking about Sylvanas, right?
The Forsaken were accepted out of Convenience (a foothold in the Eastern Kingdoms), not out of Necessity. The Blood Elves…they’re more complicated. They were also more convenient than necessary as well. However…they become Necessary if you look at the Hordes stance long-term had Sylvanas through with offing herself post-Wrath since the Forsaken then would be unable to replenish their numbers…which would mean that it falls to the Blood Elves to serve as the Horde’s foothold on the Eastern Kingdoms (which they currently are, funnily enough).
I can’t speak for your arguments with anyone else, but all you’ve done is gone around in circles with me that have all led to the same start/finish: Sylvanas is Evil and only cares insofar as “that’s one more life I can throw away before I truly risk my own”.
They weren’t allies to the Horde. They were accepted into the Horde, similar to Darkspear and Bloodhoof. And even if it was out of convenience, convenience implies more choices that can be made. Thrall chose the right one.
Before, I’ve stated she does care. She has stated she cares, as well as the fact that someone can be an arrow in her quiver. Both can be true. And if I remember, she charged head first into that siege tower, risking her own life.
I meaaaaaan, besides that minor incident at Lordaron and that sorta big incident at the Teldrassil ( Why there were still civilian Night Elves still there to begin with when they a lot of ample time to escape before the burning is something I will never understand.) At this stage we just gotta shove that moldy old chocolate cookie in our mouths and escape the fact that Baine or Saurfang will probably die in the next expac, since the title of Warchief is like a death sentence at this stage.
No, you haven’t. You’ve given out a bunch of sophistry about how Sylvanas is just misunderstood.
ROFL. She used the Blood Elves as political pawns and then blackmailed them into a war against the Lich King when they were still recovering from the Sunwell incident. And that’s her own (former) people. The Forsaken are just meatshields to her, as she has shown repeatedly by trampling their individual rights.
When? Oh, you mean where Sylvanas had a bunch of innocent civilians murdered to kill “hope” even though only one or two of them were genuinely treasonous? Calia may have made a mistake, but Sylvanas slaughtered her own people for personal power and to crush their spirits.
Why does Calia get a free pass for getting people murdered, but Sylvanas have to be the evil one in this scenario? Move on to a new part of the topic already. Calia had zero claim to Lordaeron, and she was just creating a breach of interest within “her people’s” longevity.
No, I read it all. Your response means you understand the EXACT POINT me and the other Blood Elf are debating over (Sylvanas yelling “FOR THE HORDE” in the trailer) with my POV being that she yelled “FOR THE HORDE” less out of belief in the Horde’s Ideology and more because she knew it’d rally the other Horde Leaders/Fighters better than “FOR THE UNDERCITY!” or “FOR THE BANSHEE QUEEN”. That exact moment and Sylvanas’s exact intent.
And that look before she did it was not one of determination; it was one of Hatred. As in “Damn you for forcing me to go this far…”. She jumped into that Tower because She HAD to.
One of the core Three Races of the Post-Third War Horde (and during it).
The Tauren were the other race, other than Orcs, that served as the core of the Horde post-Third War (and during).