Sylvanas from BfA onwards may have been the result of a dev spat in the Cosby Suite

[Zerde-sargeras (Zerde)]

My hope is more of we get enough lore to at least plug up some of the plothole and allow us to move on. At this point I just want Sylvanas to be gone and we can all move on to the next expansion, whatever that maybe.

[Akiyass-moon-guard (Akiyass)]

@Thadeus-caelestrasz

wearing belly-baring armor

I am not sure why we take practical, irl application of arms and armor into account with Warcraft.

Where entire armies have military issued bikini armor, and shoulder armor big enough to shatter your spine. Swords so thick they would weight a few hundred pounds (and that’s only considering the small ones).

[Chaeor-azjolnerub]

@Baalsamael-turalyon

mayhaps a red flag???

To again bring up hindsight on my own part: Perhaps his picking on RPers in EQ should have been a red flag before he was near the story team.

@Mawthorne-lightninghoof

This actually would make more sense.

Definitely would. And fits the strange pieces floating around the story.

[Mawthorne-lightninghoof]

It was a popular meme that made the rounds on reddit, that the reason Sylvanas got mad in the cinematic was because the NE called her out for powersliding in a bikini into a fully armored and armed knight… not exactly a great tactical decision.

[Zuleika-hyjal (Zuleika)]

@Baalsamael-turalyon

Maybe the guy whose sole mission/vision for the game is “make the Horde evil”

I don’t think that was his vision, or at least not always. He was the one who wanted heroic Garrosh, remember. In fact, I used to think of him as the one guy on the team who actually “got” the Horde, for that reason. (Yeah, I was naive.)

[Tausnor-moon-guard (Tausnor)]

So…the truth finally comes out.

The healthiest option in my brutally honest opinion, is to not run with the awful reality we have been cursed with. To instead have Blizzard come out, be honest about what happened with the narrative. Then give a for once actually deserved RETCON to the Sylvanas story.

@Anelaan-wyrmrest-accord

I feel like there’s a massive difference between “we wrote something bad, let’s retcon it” and “we had a literal abuser in power and he and his buddies made some really horrible stuff we can’t possibly fix, let’s retcon it”.

^^^^
Exactly as Anelaan puts it. Let’s fix this fire (no Teldrassil pun intended).

[Amadis-draka (Amadis)]

@Zerde-sargeras

@Akiyass-moon-guard

We know most of the Horde’s experience fighting the Kaldorei has been against civilian lead militia

They were talking about Malfurion taking out a an entire battalion on his own.

They were talking about both.

From Terran Gregory at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEHc8le_Qpk&t=10m04s :

Her name is Shendruk. She was created for this cutscene. We imagined that this is someone who’s been actually probably a soldier on the battle lines in this region, you know, between like the orcish line of going into Ashenvale. She’s probably a character who’s been there, right, and that had some experience. And I know there’s been some conversation about the way she talks about Night Elves. Part and parcel, right, when you’re not talking about the game mechanics, right - we know that Night Elves are insanely powerful - but part and parcel, if you’ve lived in this world, there’s going to be a lot of Night Elves in this forest that are just civilians, right? When she’s been patrolling that area, by and large, she’s probably only witnessed, you know, conflicts between the normal Night Elves. You know, the ones that just live [there]. You would have never encountered the Archdruid. You never would have ever encountered [a “single Night Elf” that “could do all that”], right? So a lot of her impressions are just based on like, “Oh, yeah, I’ve seen- I’ve had scuffles with the Night Elves for however many years and I’ve never had any trouble with them,” right?

Continued at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEHc8le_Qpk&t=52m58s :

She’s very dismissive. And the faces even, right? Incredibly well animated. While he knows- *Points dramatically at Nathanos* - He knows exactly how serious this is. And she’s all like, “Pff. Whatever,” because again, as we talked at the beginning, she has dealt with, you know, ordinary Night Elves probably her whole career defending, you know, the Barrens fronts. Never personally encountered Malfurion. But he has *Pointing at Nathanos again.* He knows exactly who he’s talking about.

[Akiyass-moon-guard (Akiyass)]

@Tausnor-moon-guard

To instead have Blizzard come out, be honest about what happened with the narrative. Then give a for once actually deserved RETCON to the Sylvanas story.

They should take notes from SquareEnix. Who literally do this when their fans get upset.

[Tausnor-moon-guard (Tausnor)]

I’ve given FF a try, and don’t even enjoy it as much as WoW (perhaps because I haven’t reached end game content, got bored early). But I will ALWAYS respect SquareEnix for this, with the whole Realm Reborn approach and other mishaps they make along the way.
That franchise gets MAJOR brownie points for putting on their big boy/girl pants and owning up to what they’ve done.

[Zerde-sargeras (Zerde)]

@Amadis-draka

if you’ve lived in this world, there’s going to be a lot of Night Elves in this forest that are just civilians, right? When she’s been patrolling that area, by and large, she’s probably only witnessed, you know, conflicts between the normal Night Elves

1. this means she has also deal with non-civilians(this quote does not discredit the fact there are portions of the sentinel army that is in Ashenvale). And I also take it to mean that “normal night elves” refers to the average sentinel or huntress. That the different in fighting capacity between the regular infantry and Malfurion is leaps and bounds in difference(which as per Nathanos, he mentioned only one night elf could do what was described)

[Akiyass-moon-guard (Akiyass)]

@Zerde-sargeras

I also take it to mean

“I take this to mean my own confirmation bias.”

[Drahliana-earthen-ring (Drahliana)]

@Zuleika-hyjal

I get your point about starting over, but I don’t think a healthy fresh start can happen with Teldrassil still on the Horde’s “books.”

Unless of course a healthy fresh start is the resumption of Classic Blue Vs. Red. with the Alliance restarting the war for a change.

[Yipper-wyrmrest-accord]

@Chaeor-azjolnerub

TBH, in hindsight, it was crazy he was ever in the story team. That was not what his hire was for; he and Kaplan were EQ raiders brought on for endgame development.

A lot of the old rockstar devs seemed to have their fingers in the story where it didn’t belong.

[Tonsone-arathor]

What’s a Cosby Suite?

[Zuleika-hyjal (Zuleika)]

@Drahliana-earthen-ring

Unless of course a healthy fresh start is the resumption of Classic Blue Vs. Red. with the Alliance restarting the war for a change.

It’s still going to be two to one in that case. Also, see above about how I don’t wish a Teldrassil-style event on the Alliance, not even with reduced casualties.

[Zerde-sargeras (Zerde)]

@Akiyass-moon-guard

“I take this to mean my own confirmation bias.”

Again they have not retconned Warsong Gulch. You are literally told the night elves retook Mogushan Ramparts by the Silverwing SENTINELS.

You would have to rewrite the entire lore of Ashenvale to assume that the Horde has never once fought a member of the regular night elf army and if that was the case an even bigger question of why the night elf military has not participated in the biggest conflict in their backyard.

[Akiyass-moon-guard (Akiyass)]

@Zerde-sargeras

You are literally told the night elves retook Mogushan Ramparts by the Silverwing SENTINELS

That doesn’t mean that is the typical case. We can assume that the Horde’s experience fighting the Kaldorei has been mostly civilian militia, and the rare cases the Sentinels get involved, the Horde is utterly defeated.

@Zerde-sargeras

the Horde has never once fought a member of the regular night elf army

I have never made this claim. I said the majority of the Horde’s experience fighting night elves have been against civilian lead militia.

Again, your confirmation bias is doing all the thinking for you.

@Zerde-sargeras

why the night elf military has not participated in the biggest conflict in their backyard.

I would say that is bad writing wouldn’t you?
Odd you seem to have an issue with this lore, but otherwise defend all the other trash lore. A bit choosey, wouldn’t you think? Maybe a little… Bias?

[Fenelon-wyrmrest-accord]

@Mawthorne-lightninghoof

Those insights are reserved for those who give a crap enough to delve further.

Old God’s they shouldn’t be.

Things like that should be upfront and obvious rather than requiring jumping through hoops.

[Zerde-sargeras (Zerde)]

@Akiyass-moon-guard

That doesn’t mean that is the typical case. We can assume that the Horde’s experience fighting the Kaldorei has been mostly civilian militia, and the rare cases the Sentinels get involved, the Horde is utterly defeated.

We have quested though most of Ashenvale. For the most part we get our anti Horde quest from Silverwing/Sentinel members. However I expect the Horde is quite willing to bully civilians if they can but said civilians get aid from the sentinels to stop them.

@Akiyass-moon-guard

I have never made this claim. I said the majority of the Horde’s experience fighting night elves have been against civilian lead militia.

Which again is false. Even during the War of Thorns, Delaryn, a member of the Sentinels was leading the charge. Every major encounter we have had/everymajor story beat about Ashenvale has had the sentinels take part in it.

@Akiyass-moon-guard

I would say that is bad writing wouldn’t you?
Odd you seem to have an issue with this lore, but otherwise defend all the other trash lore. A bit choosey, wouldn’t you think? Maybe a little… Bias?

You are totally mis intepreting why I asked the question. I think the Sentinel have always taken part in the conflict in Ashenvale(and the “normal elves” refer to them). And that assuming the Sentinels are not a major part of the conflict in Ashenvale is stupid and goes against everything we know about the lore.

[Akiyass-moon-guard (Akiyass)]

@Zerde-sargeras

We have quested though most of Ashenvale. For the most part we get our anti Horde quest from Silverwing/Sentinel members.

And? Experience of the Player character is the experience of one person. Not to mention we don’t even know if the Silverwing Sentinels is consecrated branch of the Military. The Silverwing Sentinels could be a civilian Militia in Ashenvale. There is nothing in the lore that tells us otherwise. In fact, given that the Devs have told us expressed that most of the Horde’s experience has been against civilians, we have more reason to think Silverwing is a Militia group rather than an actual military battalion.

@Zerde-sargeras

Which again is false.

The Devs are more of a authority to say that than you are.
Besides, I thought you said the Sentinel Army wasn’t present during War of Thorns? Now you are saying the opposite?

@Zerde-sargeras

I think the Sentinel have always taken part in the conflict in Ashenvale

And that is incorrect. “Normal elves” are civilians.

“there’s going to be a lot of Night Elves in this forest that are just civilians, right? When she’s been patrolling that area, by and large, she’s probably only witnessed, you know, conflicts between the normal Night Elves.”

Context matters, my guy.