And the main advertised character is operating within the general power scaling he has been established. Sylvanas keeps getting MORE powerful since their last showdown. It doesn’t really matter how much you slap Bolvar on the main loading screen of the expac, that’s not a magic power boost for him. That same applies to Krexus, who’s everywhere as well. Bolvar is powerful, but if he already got bodied by Sylvie WHILE LK, he’s not magically going to be able to operate better as just DK Fordragon.
EDIT: Not to mention, there is still plenty of time to have some sort of resolution for him. He hasn’t even really gotten the ball rolling on his whole Daughter sub-plot yet.
I’ve repeatedly said that I’m not talking about Bolvar suddenly beating Sylvanas, but okay if that’s the drum you want to keep beating.
He can do other things besides sit in oribos being tortured by the jailer or getting beat by Sylvanas.
I like how you keep bringing up Krexus as if that has any relevance to the point I’m making. But since you are, sure, Krexus dying off screen is also stupid. I’ve said that before and I’m happy to say it again. But he’s dead. And Draka is taking his place. The conversation about him is over.
Bolvar continues to be useless after 9.0. Despite, once again, them saying he’s going to be a major character in 9.1 and be “front and center, serving as a pillar to rally around.” When in actuality he just stands there, tell us to do one or two things, shows up in the raid, and then gets ohko’d by Sylvanas.
I’m sure he’ll be there in the final cinematic to be all, "Oh noes the Jailer got away what shall we ever do, everything is lost! Only for Sylvanas or Jaina or Thrall to reassure him that we can still stop him.
The only reason I even bring up Sylvanas in relation to Bolvar is because the only times we see Bolvar doing anything, it’s him being beaten by her or us having to save him from the Jailer. I’d be fine if he actually like, showed up in Ardenweald to help, or did anything in Korthia beyond standing there pretending to help.
I’ve come to terms with Bolvar just being this expansions jobber.
It’s sad really. All we’ve heard from him is winning and being a little b and nothing more. At least with Khadgar (both WoD and Legion) and Tirion as the front and center characters of an expansions campaign they were able to show everyone around that they should never be underestimated and would never allow anyone to make them look like total wastes of space. Even Illidan and Magni (Legion and bfa) when we saw them in action they were giving everyone the business. Bolvar have just been disappointing like an anime side character whose only role is there to be for exposition while constantly doubting the main characters ability to win and nothing else.
And this is just seeing 9.1 included with live stuff.
Throughout the entire expansion, this is true. 9.1 is not the entire expac, we still theoretically have plenty of ground to cover. And I’m not exactly sure what you were expecting Bolvar to do beyond strike down some trash mobs? In fact, I’d wager his conflict is likely going to be more against the jailor in some capacity than Sylvanas (who’s reaching the end of her rope here in the raid).
Khadgar is actively helping us in the very beginning of WoD. And does so throughout the rest of WoD and all of Legion.
Magni is, also, in the literal introduction of Legion in Ulduar helping you and Brann fight your way through to Algalon’s room.
I have no idea why you’re so disingenuously framing Bolvar has having done the same when thusfar in the launch game and the first major patch he’s done virtually nothing but stand in Oribos outside of getting beaten by Sylvanas twice and then needing to be saved by us and Jaina at the end of 9.0.
Its very obvious what I’m talking about here and the fact that you seem to just be looking for a reason to disagree shows to me you’re not actually arguing in good faith so I’m dropping out of the convo with you.
I get the feeling that you’ve built up Bolvar’s importance to this expansion to such a degree that you could only hope to be disappointed. And there is still plenty of time for him to leave an impact going forward, its not the biggest loss in 9.1. Not to mention, the guy is leading the Ebon Blade atm. It isn’t that shocking that we’re working with his underlings more than him.
Bolvar is also NOT a portal hub like Khadgar (which is literally what Khadgar was in WoD and most of Legion). And Magni killing a bunch of trash mobs till he sat his butt in a single room for nearly all of BFA and never left is hardly him being the most relevant being of all time.
Quite convenient that she was being treated as Warchief even before he hit the ground. That means that she’s the only one who can call for a retreat, rather than any other leader there. Which was the obvious answer with their lines breaking. But, yes, all that mistrust and suspicion of her evaporated the moment “Da Spirits” conveniently told him to shoehorn her into the drivers seat. And shut everyone else in the room shut the hell up for several years out of convenience for her.
Also, this is the same Jin that during the rebellion literally stated he expected Sylvie to help out this late in the game “because she has no excuse not to”, and she showed up by her lonesome with Lor’themar’s troops. While Baine, Lor’themar, Eitrigg … pretty much every remaining Horde leader didn’t trust her and shouldn’t have been OK with her being Warchief. Save for Wix, because she’d let him do whatever he wanted.
Do you think Sylvanas was not qualified to be treated as important?
At the time she was the default leader of the Eatern Kingdoms Horde - she brought the Blood Elves into the Horde, and spearheaded the Hordes assault on Alliance forces in the Eastern Kingdoms during Caraclysm and also stood with Vol’jin’s Rebellion when it came time to depose Garrosh.
For all of the Western Horde’s mistrust of her, they were never shy about utilizing Sylvanas leadership and tactical abilities. I feel I need to remind you that the event at the Broken Shore was a military engagement, and it would have been very foolish indeed for Vol’jin to leave Sylvanas and her forces out of a full on assault against the Burning Legion.
That’s not true. There was doubts and complaints among the NPC’s, particularly from Lor’themar, but there were greater threats that needed to be dealt with at the time. What little screen time Horde characters got in Legion largely revolves around recruiting new allies to fight against the demons - complaining about their current leader would have undermined that cause.
I’ll grant you that it’s obvious in hindsight that Sylvanas’s push into the role of Warchief was to set up her betrayals in BFA and the events of Shadowlands, but that doesn’t mean there were not compelling reasons for Sylvanas to be in a leadership position within the Horde without the intervention of the Loa.
A lot of this stuff gets changed before launch and I’m hoping this is just sort of a placeholder.
WoW’s dialogue has never been exactly Pulitzer worthy. Seriously I can’t count how many times I’ve heard “THIS CANNOT BE!”. But even by those standards this is pretty room temperature tapioca. Especially for two characters who’s first duel was the intro cinematic to this expansion.
So hopefully either the writers or VActors jazz it up. Azshara’s dialogue was pretty bland too but Laura Post managed to make every line sound equal parts smug and sultry which made it a lot more memorable.
Its not that she’s important. I get that she’s important. For some “Horde” players, she’s the only thing of value on the entire Faction for goodness sake. Its that Vol’jin (the guy who had two expacs of buildup to becoming Warcheif, then not being allowed to a god damned thing with it) was not allowed to be important. And killed off in one of the most insulting ways imaginable so that the woman already being tonally treated as Warchief of the Horde before he hit the ground, could become Warchief. He was treated so dirty to gimmick her into that spot it was unbelievable. And then after making some grand speech about avenging him, the only thing she does in the entire expac is go off on a personal errand (with JUST her Forsaken) into Stormheim.
It could not have been more apparent that they killed him off so she could do something horrible with the Horde that they didn’t feel they could justify with him as leader. So they pulled another Thrall nepotism gimmick, including the death of another WC3 Horde Founder. Cuz that wasn’t old the first time.
It’s evident since her Warchief status is never brought up in Stormheim that the story was created prior to her being decided to be Warchief, back when Kosak was saying Vol’jin was just MIA/out-of-commission rather than outright dead.
That’s the only faction story that existed except for the one Anduin chain about him getting to terms with his father’s death.
The Forsaken weren’t there for her, they were there to help you secure the Aegis. Sylvanas tagged along for the ride because she was going to go off and do her own thing.
Great, none of this changes the reality of what they did with her. And they did decide to kill Jin off to specifically make her Warchief, then did nothing with her after but Stormheim (it does not matter if that zone was designed first). The moment they made that choice, was the moment they planned on using her to do someting horrific with the Horde Faction. Because there was no way in hell they killed Jin off the way they did solely so she could fill the same role he could have; but worse. No matter what some Sylvanas fans convinced themselves.
I don’t think anyone is going to argue that Vol’jin wasn’t done dirty - he most certainly was. Even so, Sylvanas’s appointment still makes sense even outside of the necessity for what Blizzard was trying to set up for the plot in future expansions.
Erring and Saurfang were seen as too old to lead, Baine was seen as too young, i don’t think I need to tell you why Gallywix would have been a bad idea, and while Lor’themar certainly had the most experience he is still only a regent to his own people. It’s telling that even with there being no other logical choice to lead Blizz still thought Vol’jin would need a push from the Loa to put Sylvanas in charge.
I don’t think they ever expected everyone to be happy with how she came to power - I think they’d ere relying on that sense of doubt. They just underestimated how many Horde players would actually be absolutely enthusiastic about Warchief Sylvanas (even at the detriment of poor old Vol’jin.)
That’s a fair point. Weirdly though, I think it was Varian that was killed off for faction parity rather than Vol’jin. Both were very sudden deaths, but his didn’t seem to serve much purpose other than to replace him with his son.
His death was over-glorified and given a lot of focus, Anduin was given a lot of focus as his potential successor and the Alliance story felt like a next chapter with Anduin taking the throne.
Vol’jin just being offed for no reason after he accomplished nothing of note felt like they accidentally shredded the script.
They had to give the Horde an extra cutscene because the big Broken Shore one was all about how Varian was awesome.
Yeah … what they told me was very clearly “everything you liked about the Horde faction was wrong. Don’t you know the only thing of value on your entire faction is an edgy nihilist who treats everyone else like garbage, and who only gets away with half of what she does because of plot convenience?”. Nevermind that the WC3 vision of the Horde is only reason the Faction makes functional sense. Or that they continue to have to use that same image of the Faction to save it from their WC1/WC2 BS. Nevermind that Sylvanas was never even given a reason to start caring for her own Forsaken more as people, than just tools for her own personal use. When they did what they did with Jin, they made it VERY clear how much contempt they have for the themes of the WC3 Horde. Something they’ve been hammering home for years I suppose.
Just like Cairne with Garrosh, Vol’jin had to die to put a Despot on the Throne.