The more you delve into the lore, the less it makes sense. “da spirts” sounds convincing at first. But then, when we have all the loa mapped out, you ask, “wait, what spirits?”
I guess Vol’jin knew he was taking advice from Mueh’zala? Or maybe he was imitating Bwonsamdi and the other ‘spirits.’
I’m not sure what yo mean on here? Because no, Vol’jin didn’t know he was taking advice from Mueh’zala. That was the entire point of his quest chain in BfA and SLs so far. Mueh’zala orchestrated his death, then tricked a dying Jin that Sylvanas had to be Warchief to save the Horde. I assume by impersonating one of the Spirits or Loa Jin would actually trust (Mueh doesn’t have a concrete form in Lore, he can shapeshift). He then stole Jin’s soul at the moment of death, so Jin could not go to De Otherside.
In short, they Ner’zhul’d Vol’jin. Its really no more complicated than that.
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Sarcasm. I meant that Vol’jin was taking advice from, the spirits. Which, during Legion, we as players we accepting and said, “Oh, okay!” But once you think about it, you ask, “Wait, what spirits? Who?” Just saying spirits doesn’t fly anymore. I know Baal loves his hard worldbuilding, but once you cross that realm. You can’t use ambiguous terms anymore.
I mean, it was never that cut and dry. Its just something we were forced to accept, just like how Thrall suddenly decided nepotism was a must and forced Garrosh into the drivers seat. Resulting in … how coincidental … another WC3 Horde founder dying. Like, anyone who knows anything about Jin knows he would have never named Sylvanas warchief normally, and Bwon sure as hell wouldn’t have chosen her (because he’s not fond of Undead, or those who have the capacity to steal from him). But, just like all the other Horde leaders who also hated and mistrusted Sylvanas still in that room … they were all forced to stay silent for plot-convenience. Again, just like Garrosh. Truly, the Horde really is just a haphazard plot-device. Not a faction.
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Once you start examining things, it definitely becomes more clear. And confusing. So you have the 40 some fathers realizing they turned characters into eye candy(Dragons Aspects) Then bring in other authors that try to make of things, “Everything is an element” but the Titans made a prison for them? What? “Lets lock up water, hey, I’m thirsty.”
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Bolvar yells: RAAAaaaarrGGHHHH!
Best line of the expansion, right there.
I’m not saying that Blizzards dialogue has lost eloquence, but it’s pretty clear when they’re rushing a scene they don’t actually care about.
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I feel like this level of skepticism just doesn’t work in general with fantasy. Especially a High Magic setting like WoW. Its when Blizz starts folding back and retconning their own lore (or just sidelining established lore and characterization entirely for plot-convenience) that things start to fall apart.
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I’m on your side… But I also realize, Warcraft is flowing through several generations of ‘developers’ or rather, people. The current president of Blizzard is the guy that said people don’t really want WoW classic.
They’ll change anything into whatever at this point.
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It seems this is how Blizzard thinks Horde Players are supposed to relate to the current story? An aggressive grunt towards a female.
I mean, other than the Jailer tossing Baine aside as worthless trash.
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Yes but Bolvar was in 9.0. And he was a punk that was beaten by Sylvanas, and then said it was too hard to continue looking for his surrogate son, and then got tortured at the end of 9.0 until he was saved by Jaina and friends.
And then in 9.1, gets ohko’d by Sylvanas in the raid.
Illidan was just mia until the end of the Nighthold. But everything after that is fine.
Not sure exactly how you expected him to fair better against her whilst not the LK, when he got bodied by her AS the LK? Seems Jailor power-ups are pretty potent stuff.
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I didn’t say he needed to 1v1 the Jailer or Sylvanas and win. He could actually do something else besides sit in Oribos whining about how its too hard to actually help every time and then needing us to save him. And then getting ohko’d by Sylvanas in 9.1.
Take those two out of it. At least have him show up and help fight at some point. Have him do literally anything proactive.
God at this point just put him out to pasture and make it Darion or Alexandros, at least they’re actually doing stuff in Shadowlands.
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I mean, Baine hasn’t even been allowed to that much. The told us he was our Best and Heart of the Faction several times leading up to him being literally thrown away like worthless garbage by his own kidnappers; then him pouting off to the side of all the important people in Oribos without any dialogue.
Bolvar isn’t the only one is a weird spot.
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Baine isn’t on some of the box art and also heavily advertised in the selling of the expansion.
Also if you want to argue that Baine is out of place in Shadowlands go for it. He absolutely is. As is Jaina and Thrall.
As a note, Margrave Krexus is everywhere in the advertising and died offscreen within minutes of the story. And, frankly, given that both Thrall and Baine are members of devout spirit worshipping cultures, they should have far more relevance than they’re being allowed. And Blizz’s annoying habit of just deleting Horde relevance in content we should have relevance in is far more offputting to me than non-LK Bolvar not being some powerhouse. When he is essentially just a DK version of his Highlord self now.
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Ah yes the actual problem is…Baine and Thrall not having more prominence in…the Shadowlands…?
Okay.
It is “A” problem. That the one Cosmological Force of SIX that the Horde has always had more historical relevance and nuance with (between our Spirit Worshipping Cultures, our Patron Loa of our Main Troll Tribe, and even our Forsaken) … is being instead dominated by Human/Alliance Light Worshippers, DKs, and weirdly NEs. With a little side-story for Bwon literally forced into the corner of a very NE themed zone.
I’m not saying them getting content is a bad thing. Nor should they not be expecting better representation and storytelling on that front. But … like with WotLK, like with Legion, it just sucks to once again see Blizz handwaving away Horde relevance in content we should have relevance in. Its grown old.
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As is the Horde complaining every time they don’t take the center stage. Which isn’t very often.
When have we been allowed to be “Center Stage”? In faction conflict expansions that use us as a plot device and then leaves us in absolute ruin so Blizz can get back to their safe space. We went from a villain bat in Cata/MoP, to largely irrelevant in WoD (because killing traditionally Horde races doesn’t really make it Horde content, no more than the Dark Horde in Vanilla). Then we could have literally been written out of the story in Legion without changing a thing. To being used as a plot-device and villain batted again in BfA.
And the idea that me arguing that one of TWO living Horde reps in ALL of the SLs expansion should be allowed something of his own to do … is totally me asking to be center stage. Pshh … why would the main rep of the single most spirit worshipping PC race in the entire franchise find any personal relevance in the land of dead?
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Dude you took my criticism of the main advertised character and turned it into whining about Horde representation.
There’s a thousand other threads to do that on. My comment had jack all to do with Horde or Alliance characters.