That just says the Valkyr were there to negotiate the pact, not bring her to the Maw.
It isn’t total control because Sylvanas still has a “choice” but it’s a false choice, as the alternative is eternal suffering.
We’d need to see more because as it stands, Uther is the only one we’ve seen have a soul split and it doesn’t really address what his soul fragment in the Maw meant.
Considering Uther returns to “normal” after they recombine and Uther prior was rage-filled, it’s possible it’s similar to Sylvanas.
Kel’Thuzad was loyal to Arthas because Arthas raised him (after killing him…)
But Kel was always loyal above all to his vision of transcending Life and his belief in a greater power then Life and Death, even before meeting Arthas. Of Which, Lady Deathwhisper was spearheading within ICC. She was carrying on Kel’Thuzad’s death cult within ICC, of which The Lich King really had no stake in. He didn’t believe in or care for their vision of transcending the limits of flesh. He just wanted to end life and rule death.
An inference can be made that since the jailer sent the Val’kyr, he would want to ensure Syl never stepped before the arbiter to be judged and give her an incredibly skewed idea of the afterlife by bringing her to the maw, and it ties together the plot hole of edge off night perfectly.
The Jailer makes it very clear that he considered all of the Lich Kings failures here. Furthermore Ner’zhul wouldn’t have been tortured into the Torment of Ner’zhul if Zovaal wasn’t personally pissed at him, in very much contrast to his attitude in leaving Mueh’zala and Dentharius to their fates after they were defeated.
Furthermore Arthas turning Azeroth into a Scourged World, prevents anyone outside force from claiming the planet like the Burning Legion and then there is no one to forge a connect between Azeroth and the Shadowlands so that Zovaal can claim the prize he seeks.
You’re forgetting a simple fact my dude, frostmourne and the helm are tied directly to Zovaal so Scourgeland you speak of would be very much what he desired. His presence even being commented on by Bolvar when he wore the helm, but neither Arthas nor Ner’zhul caused the jailer to pivot his plan. Only the one seared by the flames of life did, the art book on the helm “ The veil between realms wanes. The Helm of Domination was crafted to be our way forward; instead, the one seared by the flames of life uses it to keep us at bay.”
Ner’zhul possibly, Arthas however? Don’t see him being a stick in the jailers cog of a plan. Because as I stated in the post above, the veil was waning regardless of who wore the helm so if Arthas had lived and succeeded the hole in icecrown would’ve been able to have been made without sundering the helm and give the jailer unfettered access to a world with no defense against him.
I’ll still preach that Arthas is merely a failure for dying.
I don’t think of it so much as Arthas actively going against Zovaal as much as Arthas going on an ego trip and thinking he can be the Lich King without Zovaal. Arthas didn’t think of himself as a pawn, but who thought he could cut Zovaal out.
Knowing Arthas’ personality, this is probably true, though that doesn’t mean Zovaal was too worried and knew he was going to win in the end anyway.
So yeah, ultimately, Arthas’ defeat was his final Failure.
Out of curiosity, aren’t people also assuming Arthas was under Zoovals control? Because the lore states he retained his free will after donning the helm, and that hasn’t changed one bit.
Actually Arthas was stated to have his free will when he held frostmourne, he still had the ability to choose whether or not he committed the acts of horror he did. But there was a caveat with Zovaal subtly influencing his decision making through the blade.
I think Arthas may of knew of him, if not in direct connection. I mean, Bolvar could feel Zovaal’s presence and Arthas wore the helm for far longer and tapped further into it’s power then Bolvar was willing to do.
Now, Ner’zhul I’m willing to bet had no knowledge of him, at least prior to him getting frozen in ice.
Eh Arthas never did a Bolvar meditation into the SLs and such, while Arthas slept it was to defeat Ner’zhul’s lingering conscious. Bolvar however was using the helm to explore the SLs, and see things no mortal was meant to see. BUT who knows what Blizz will end up saying at this point, till they say otherwise my mind is pretty set just like everyone else’s lol.
He didn’t do this until after he came to the SL, and only after no longer wearing the helm. Previously, while still the LK in ICC, he said he could feel another Presence pulling at his mind and only had vague images.
Bolvar also only did it as a last resort because he knew what would happen.
Arthas would of done it for power and wouldn’t of had someone there to help pull him back.
No it was stated that was how he was spending his time, Bolvar only feared delving into the MAW for he feared he’d fall under the sway of its dark master.
Death was not the end I believed it to be. No rest or joyous reunions in the Light awaited me. What I witnessed challenged all I knew. With my final breath, I saw impossible places – worlds within worlds brimming with beings that defied description. It wasn’t until the Helm of Domination was placed upon my head that I understood the truth I had seen: Death is not an end, but a beginning.
-The Lich King
Now you have seen as I have, sights never meant for living eyes. But this knowledge will not save you. Nothing can stop what Sylvanas set into motion. Rending the veil was just the beginning. Beyond the ruined sky awaits an evil older than reality itself.
The Jailer has been amassing power within his Maw, and soon his patience shall be rewarded. Everything we sacrificed to save Azeroth will have been in vane. The only key to saving our world lies within the realm of Death.
But my point was, Arthas would of done the same and he wouldn’t of feared the Maw as Bolvar did, and it’s known that Zovaal could communicate through the helm if his attention is turned toward it. Even just a fragment of the Helm could channel Zovaal’s power.
To believe that Arthas wouldn’t have known about the Jailor given all we know is foolish.
Actually not so, because Arthas was a far more compromised individual and already under the jailers sway via frostmourne. Bolvar was cooked with the fires of life, the direct opposite of death which gave Bolvar the strength to resist the jailer hence how he learned of the dark entity trying to influence him. Also that shard was in the SLs closer to the jailer then it was on Azeroth, so he had an easier time expressing his power through it.
