You know, running through some of the old Wrath dungeons and ICC, knowing what we know now, there’s a lot of context that we’ve missed and/or changes the meaning of what some of the NPCs/bosses say.
Like how Lady Deathwhisper talks about the “Master’s Plans”, which we always assumed meant the Lich King but now, it makes more sense that they’re talking about Zovaal.
This is sort of like, as if Zovaal was really the final boss of ICC, but we cut out after the Lich King because he was the leading antagonist thus the one we thought was the one leading the whole thing.
I don’t think the Scourge under control the Lich King knew what was going in Arthas’ mind. Most certainly were raised and serving him without question, there is no evidence that the Scourge was serving someone else while the Lich King was active. It also makes no sense that his lieutenants would be shouting about Zovaal for no reason at all. Kel’Thuzad was referring to Arthas as ‘Master’ since at least Vanilla, he serves the Jailer now(so we believe), but there is no doubt he was loyal to Arthas/Ner’zhul.
This. Looking back on it, it really didn’t make much sense. The Lich King didn’t really have any plans beyond wiping Azeroth clean of all life and raising the greatest heroes into undeath
Late to this thread, really late. But the shadowlands art book even tells us that the Val’kyr where sent to facilitate this deal between syl and the jailer.
Thanos was going to pick up farming after collecting all the Infinity Stones and wiping half the Universe. He didn’t need some additional plan to wipe out of the rest of the Eternals, or to fight Galactus as justification for his plan.
Why Sylvanas committed suicide in the first place, if her soul was spliced and captured by Jailor after Arthas have killed her?
Why Sylvanas went against the Arthas, if her soul is in Jailors arms?
There’s usually a chain of command to these things. The people at the bottom don’t always know the details the people at the top know, or even the full picture. So the Jailer has a plan, Arthas may have known that plan, but didn’t obey it. So why would he keep people that are shouting “All hail Zovaal,” around? Pretty sure he still had the Helm of Domination and control over the Scourge that was still serving him. I get people love finding little secrets, but this isn’t one.
She killer herself due to her big purpose in life being completed, and no longer desiring to play around as an undead desires her eternal rest. Why she stopped serving Arthas? Because the lich kings power and control waned in wc3 tft, and because Syl hates Arthas for all he has done to her.
Yes, but now its appeared that when Arhas have killed Sylvanas using frostmorn, he have spliced Sylvanas on the 2 parts. Good Sylvanas ranger was kept in hostage by Jailor, while evil Sylvanas was working in Azeroth in the Jailors plan.
But Arthas was also working on Jailor.
So, one Jailors minion have committed a suicide after another Jailors minion was killed…
Because the half that was left behind, that was driven by vengeance, no longer had the object of that burning hatred (Arthas) to focus on. She was never happy about being raised as undead, and at the time she thought the beautiful afterlife she got a brief glimpse of when Arthas first killed her might still be waiting for her upon her demise - being undead, however, she couldn’t just die of old age or something, so she chose to die by her own hand.
Nerzhul, Arthas, and Bolvar we’re all failed Lich Kings that resisted Zovaal’s will in one way or another. (Nerzhul plotted to free himself, Arthas plotted to use the Scourge to defend Azeroth, as did Bolvar.) So Zovaal used what influence he had to undermine and depose these failures - Sylvanas was just the pawn he had the most immediate access to. Fueling her hatred and then later controlling her more directly through the Val’kyr.
An assumption, we only know that Bolvar was the only one to resist. Even the SLs art book tells us that Bolvar was the one who barred the jailers way, and thus required him to change his plans.
It’s more then likely the former 2 lich kings are failures due to the fact that 1) Nerzhul has his mind torn asunder when he merged with Arthas, thus making him a useless shell that would never be able to act on his own. 2) Arthas died before he could scour the world of life.
I’m not saying they know the Jailer, and I’m not saying everyone obeys it. I’m just saying it would make sense if Lady Deathwhisper did know of the Jailer. The 9 Val’kyr knew him directly, heck they are the ones who took her to the Jailer.
Obviously this wasn’t planned way back when, but it makes sense regardless.
Not necessarily, you can be a failure for a broad set of reasons which can be more then “not following orders.”
Not following orders is merely an assumption people have placed on the other 2, due to the jailer not really delving into specifics. “A failure, just like the others.” People read that and assumed he meant they all resisted, but a failure is a failure regardless of the reasons.
They could simply be failures because they died before finishing the job. Even Arthas during TFT almost got killed off by Sylvanas, only to be saved by her decision to toy with her prey long enough for dreadlords to interrupt the fun
I’ve never been particularly a fan of “Arthas grew a conscience after 2-3 genocides”
Considering the Vereesa story in the Fable book, Sylvanas likely went to the Maw due to being killed by Frostmourne. We know the Jailer has her soul, or whatever.
There’s never really been a moment where he could’ve grabbed it and the foreshadowing of the soul splitting with Frostmourne and the Sylvanas mythic-only mount description does imply she’s missing a part of her soul.
Considering Danauser stated that your soul combines with every iteration of itself in the Shadowlands, she likely joined it’s sliver and nothing Sylvanas had done up to that point even deserves the Maw.
Actually the SLs art book tells us the Val’kyr are the reason Syl went to the maw, they where sent by the jailer to facilitate the pact he would strike with her.
From the art book:
He would send those val’kyr to serve as her tethers to mortality. A pact needed to be made. Only then could she return beyond the veil. Only then will the Banshee Queen claim the crown of the false king.
not her entire soul…clearly, souls can be shattered into fragments. Jailer, also, had a fragment of Uther’s soul…clearly fragments do not mean total control either.