Can anyone tell me why would Sylvanas go to the Maw in the Edge of Night? What exactly did she do to deserve such a fate as this place is meant for the irredeemable evil people in existence?
I thought that when people were raised as scourge that they retained absolutely nothing and just do what they are told to do. Same goes for the scourge “brass”. The “brass” might have more intelligence than the standard zombie but not much. So if that is true, anything she did as part of the scourge would not be of her choice and therefore probably would not count against her.
I, also, do not know if a scourge was killed in combat would be sent to the arbiter for judgment or not. Perhaps if they weren’t, then they all eventually get sent directly to the Maw. But wouldn’t that break the machine of death as everyone is supposed to be judged by the Arbiter?
Help me understand. Thanks.
The leading prediction is that she wasn’t destined for the Maw, but was rather dragged there by her Val’kyr. To convince her that that was her eternity after her torment of Undeath, and to get her to make a really suss deal. Because they knew it would get her to move in ways convenient for them. Even before the reveal of the Jailor that deal was always way too good to be true. The Val’kyr were way too convenient for that specific scenario, and gave up way too much bargaining power for seemingly no reason.
In short, she’s being played. At least at the time of her death at ICC she was not destined for he Maw, but only convinced she was to set her on post WotLK path. And her “seeing the world as it really is”, really just amounts to her “seeing the world as someone else wanted her to”. Because, knowing her temperament, it was very convenient for them that she see things that way. She’d do anything to no longer be a slave to her torment.
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- maybe val’kyrs / mawsworn (it happened after Uther/Arthas story, and time is “odd” in the Shadowlands)
- maybe Mueh’zala machinations and a “fake” Maw a la the Other Side
- maybe a yet another functionaly of Frostmourne awaits to be mentioned.
- maybe an illusion of another sort
So, there is a boring answer, and “maybe more interesting one”.
Boring is because the plot needed to happen. And the most likely one, given inconsistencies in the Sylvanas character directions at different times.
Something that could’ve been interesting depending on the execution, would be if the Shadowlands would be a more complex system with depth, double/trible floors in the story, etc. In this case, there is:
The Maw
Covenant: None
This horrific prison houses the most vile and irredeemable souls in existence—ones deemed by the Arbiter to represent a threat to the Shadowlands if left free.
© https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23187291/world-of-warcraft-whats-next-panel-recap
So, you do not need to do anything “horrible”, but just not fit the system for whatever reason.
gl hf
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Likely the upcoming Sylvanas book will fully retcon Edge of Night into Edgier of Night, where Sylvanas meets the Jailer personally and dedicates herself to him, getting the Val’kyr to help her in her tasks.
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I still think its funny how people are so resistant to the idea that her Val’kyr played her. Like, look at how horrific their deal with her was on their side. How much bargaining power they just gave up for seemingly no reason. And how psychologically and emotionally vulnerable a suicidal Sylvanas was in that situation. They traded out their chains to Bolvar for chains AND eternity in damnation with Sylvanas. For what? A little bit of freedom from the LK? 5 of which didn’t even make it a year?
I mean, I know Sylvanas’ powers have always been extreme plot-convenience, but even that is pushing it. That deal they gave her in that vulnerable position was suss as hell!
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I think the leading theories are “Valkyrs have an agenda and wanted to make sure Sylvanas felt dependent on them” and “Frostmourne messed her soul up enough to make it a possibility”
Also it’s possible the machine of death breaking wasn’t a single failure point after ICC but a gradual fraying of the system that culminated there. I can’t imagine the widespread growth of necromantic magic use by groups like the cult of the damned or WC1 shadow council did much to help.
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Are they? That always seemed the case, and seems more and more possible as time goes on. I guess I havent noticed people rejecting that notion amidst the sea of others.
It always felt like Sylvanas was being shown what needed to be shown to agree to deal. Especially since we learned Arthas was taken to the Maw almost at the whims of an individual with power to do it, a regular Kyrian like Devos.
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It seems like a combo of effects. Given Terenas, the trapped fragment of Uther, and others ended up in the Maw, I would say perhaps anyone whose soul is stolen by Frostmourne becomes bound to the Maw and gets sucked there before the Kyrian even get a chance to notice you are dead.
To negate the effect on Sylvanas the (secretly Mawsworn) Val’kyr offered to enter a compact with her to take her place should she die. Of course, being Mawsworn it was no real sacrifice on their part and was all part of Zovval’s overarching plan to get Sylvanas to hate the Arbiter and the system itself.
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Was Devos a regular Kyrian? She was a Paragon, they seem like they do have a bit more going for them than the run of the mill of their kind? That being … yeah, its almost garaunteed at this point that her own Val’kyr tricked her. I would wager its part of why she seems so convinced that it was the Arbiter system that put her in the Maw; and why it needs to go down. Hell, based on her raid dialogue she still seems to think she controls them with how she orders them into the fray.
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The whole Val’kyr thing is ironic though…especially when you consider those weren’t normal Mawsworn, but ones created by the Lich King from female Vrykul. I do wonder how long they been serving Zooval though . 
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Probably the moment they were raised by Frostmourne, as it seams it and the Helm are connected directly to Zovaal and the LK was always his puppet as well.
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Do we know the source of the original one? Annhylde the Caller? Hell, we can’t even be sure of the other Nine, only that those nine have the capacity to make more Val’kyr. For all we know, these buggers are of Helya’s original brood, since we have no idea how long she’s been working with the Jailor. Only that Mueh’zala was the one that made the deal for Odyn’s eye (which is what the Eye of the Jailor is).
Lines in the Edge of Night story suggested to me that the story in which val’kyrs got was not their choice. However, the description of the last val’kyr in the PTR dungeon journal throws it out IMO, and places the whole thing upside down.
According to what is avalable in the PTR dungeon journal, Skyja is not the last, but actually the first to start this whole mess.
gl hf
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In an upcoming questline we discover that fragments of many of the souls claimed by Frostmourne ended up in Zovaal’s keeping, and are kept locked in a special wing of Torghast. My hunch is, since one of those soul fragments would have belonged to Sylvanas (having been both slain and raised by Frostmourne) and she would have been drawn to it.
Now I don’t know if she was drawn to it naturally (as others slain by Frostmourne have still managed to end up in other afterlives in the Shadowlands) or if she was compelled by Zovaal and drawn intentionally to the Maw. What I do know is that at least one of the Valkyrie that formerly served Arthas was already Mawsworn by that point, and it was she that made the deal with Sylvanas to send her back to the land of the living.
A good question at this point is exactly how much of Sylvanas was sent back, and whether or not she even clearly remembered everything that happened while she was in the Maw.
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WoWpedia says she’s a Val’kyr, which was something the Lich King created. But with the new retcons being rammed into the old lore, I don’t know if that’s still a thing at this point.
It’s fair to say that it’s not a stretch of a retcon. I mean, just because the LK CAN make Val’kyr doesn’t mean that he was the original creator of them.
Honestly, the whole storyline of the Val’kyr throughout Wrath never made sense to me and everything we’re learned since then makes far more sense.
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there are some bits from PTR available. Not sure how the devs are going to tie it all together. Looks odd to me, but maybe it’s because not all is avalable so far: https://www.wowhead.com/news/the-fate-of-the-valkyr-chains-of-domination-cutscene-322517
gl hf
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Eyir, Odyn, and Helya have been shown to be able to make Val’kyr. In fact, Odyn seems to have been one of the earliest sources of that capacity on Azeroth; due to the window into the Shadowlands he gained from Mueh’zala. Truly, while we know that the LK was capable of making his own Val’kyr, the Nine that latched on to Sylvanas we can’t be sure of. We truly know so little about them its nuts. Not to mention, there were plenty of Kvaldir all over Northrend that had little to no plot reason to be in that expac. They weren’t Scourge, no matter the aesthetic similarities. That was Heyla’s presence there in that northern continent.
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That’s a fair assessment. I just find it weird how blizz is retconning Wrath just to try and make the new lore fit…it’s really jarring to people like me and others who are huge fans of the Lich King is all.
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There’s some aspects with the new short stories that make me wonder how old some of those are, since we know not every short story they’ve published was recent (iirc some of the novellas are things that had been lingering in limbo for almost a decade when they came out)
And how much some of the clashes are also due to writers’ room internal conflicts spilling over in the writing
And how much of the seeming oddity isn’t tied to some more recent lore making a mess of intended stories older than that new lore.
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