Like I’ve said allot in regards to Syl, the Val’kyr that made a deal to serve her probably dropped her off in the maw as per their true masters wishes so the jailer could strike his deal.
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Y’know, was there ever a point where she genuinely believed that all Undead went to the Maw? Because clearly she was willing to not only subject more people to Undeath, but throw her own Bulwark into the meatgrinder many times. She just used them more sparingly than Garrosh would have. I also don’t recall the Primes ever insinuating all Undead ended up there. It was just her, and Arthas, who she knew for certain ended up there. And considering her perspective on the latter…
Long story short, this was never about the Forsaken or saving them from some hell Fate. Her actions for years have proven that. Its about her, and only her. She may convince herself that its for some greater good, but just like with her revenge against Arthas it seems to stem from a single, nihilistic, selfish need.
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At least with garrosh they wouldn’t have to continue the misery that was being trapped in a rotting corpses, in all Honesty of I where undead I’d pray for the release of death cause it seems like a bleak existence.
And I know not all live in abject misery of their new circumstances, but it’s pretty evil to force that on people. At least with Zelling that dude chose it, where as scourge forsaken has no choice after being free. But those after the fall of Arthas? That’sa tragedy.
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I guess it’s never explicitly stated. It was only a speculation.
Seems to be a popular theory, though it still makes little sense in the grand scheme of things (her motives, not her selfishness). What exactly is she gaining? Not going to the maw? The idea that Undead aren’t destined for the maw, with good examples showing that seems like a rather large elephant in the room. I have a hard time believing someone as resourceful as her is kept ignorant on that.
Given how the last encounter with her went Blizzard is keeping us in the dark for motives so futile to guess
Trying to assume her motives is annoying at this point, cause everyone blizz says we’ll get answers to her whole evil game plan I’m only left with way more questions and still no clue.
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Why does it matter whether or not if all Undead go to the Maw? You yourself said that expectation was built off of little more than speculation. What is important then is that SHE went to the Maw, and if she believes that the Arbiter system is to blame for that … then there is no guaranteed eternal escape for her so long as that system remains in place. So, she needs to get rid of it.
Bluntly, if Sylvanas is not aware that it was possible to yank a soul away from their destined afterlife to one of a death-gods choosing BEFORE the Arbiter system broke (which is entirely possible that she doesn’t know) … then the Arbiter system is to blame for putting her in the Maw. Its cruel. Its unfair. How dare it place her in the same place Arthas deserves to be?! Thus, it needs to go!
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Were the problems of the Shadowlands really started by the Jailer and did they happen recently or has it been broken for a very long time?
Who is to say the Arbiter is just and the Jailer is unjust at this point. Remember, the Jailer is a prisoner of the other pantheons of death. Was he put there because he saw the injustice and corruption in the system and tried to change it?
I kind of see the Shadowlands as something like the Matrix where we are only fuel to run their society. Perhaps the Jailer wanted to stop it and give us free will.
Sylvanas’ motives were decided on after her actions, not before.
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I mean, me, mostly because he literally says he wants to kill Azeroth’s soul, which seems like uhhh… a pretty bad thing. He kinda also tortures scores of innocent souls, so there’s that. You can’t just babble “free will”, give 0 explanation as to what you mean and get away with it, which is kinda what Sylvanas did.
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To be fair Syl is always vague on what she wants to do.
Yeah she is, the problem is people taking her at her word when she allies herself with Mr. “I want to kill Azeroth” then vaguely speaks about free will (also saying you will join us or else).
I hate her vagueness, and her 32d chess games. The jailer I can at least Intuit what he wants to do, devour Azeroth world soul and remake everything like he wants.
The argument would go that it’s okay to sacrifice Undead because they’ll be there (in the Maw) regardless. She could at least “free them” by destroying the system when she finally gets her plan going. In this scenario, her selfishness is completely, 100% irrelevant. Her actions for herself will benefit “her people” regardless. And she continues to believe that - “I will set us all free” from the cinematic.
If Undead DON’T go to the Maw, then her crusade is… exactly as you say. It’s all about her, she’s condemning people to an unfair fate herself etc. It no longer matters that a class of people are condemned to a certain unfair fate, it’s that she is condemned to that uncertain fate.
But we’re still running on speculation here. If Undead aren’t condemned to the Maw, why was she necessarily condemned? Which then starts the speculation she was duped by the Jailor. We have no context behind any of that. She could have done any number of things to fix her situation. It seems like her breaking of the system seems incredibly convoluted and wasteful. Without knowing much about her true motives we’re not gonna get anywhere arguing.
100%
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You mean just like how her crusade against Arthas was all about her? And her “mongrel race of rotten corpses” were just a tool for her and her needs?
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I don’t understand this sentence.
Droite hates Sylvanas and will interpret every action and statement in the light that best conforms with their pre-existing conceptualization of her.
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EoN reveals a lot about Sylvanas’ relationship with her Forsaken prior to the fall of Arthas. They were her “Mongrel Race of Rotten Corpses”. Her “Arrows in her Quiver”. To be useful and used for one purpose … her revenge against Arthas. The moment that was done, the moment she didn’t need them, she discarded them like the useless garbage they were. Even while being warned what would happen to them without her. She only changed her tune once she experienced her hell, and once again needed them.
They became her “Bulwark Against the Infinite”. A repurposed tool, just waiting to become obsolete and for her to abandon them again. But apparently I’m the only crazy person who took it that way, and wasn’t willing to give her the massive benefit of the doubt it required to twist that into something positive.
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the jailer will be clearly the bad gy and our loot at the end of the expansion.
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If the system ( including Azeroth) is the Matrix then I say destroy it and let us live (or die) freely.
Also, did the Jailer say join us or else or was it only Sylvanas?
Uhhhh I don’t think that has ever been hinted at, ever.
Doubt the millions of people on Azeroth would have a choice if Mr. “I am bald and evil” decided to kill Azeroth.
Only Sylvanas. The Jailer has mostly been your stereotypical evil dude so far, with Sylvanas being the delusional villain.
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