because the writters needed a new vilain , doenst matter if the vilain make sense or not
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She’s never really been the type to care about others that way. Least of all her tools the Forsaken, considering how many she rose into undeath and lead to their permanent deaths after. She’s more the type to mask her own fears and desires with caring. She has never had any real evidence that all Undead are destined for the Maw, and even her Primes never really asserted that. Only that, she was destined for the Maw and she saw Arthas there … someone who she would absolutely believe was justly put there.
If Sylvanas thinks the Arbiter system is unfair, and she’s working with the Jailor, then she must not understand the possibility that he put her there. She believes the system itself put her there, and its unjust and flawed. There is a very real possibility that she is getting played here; That her way too good to be true deal with her Primes, was literally just that; and while the Forsaken may have started EoN as valuable yet expendable tools, they weren’t the only ones who ended the story that way.
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Personally I think it makes more sense if Sylvanas has known all along that the jailer dragged her there. It’s still pretty damn unjust if someone who’s supposed to be sealed away can still reach out and damn others with him, and if there’s anything consistent left about her character, it’s that she’s a schemer.
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In short “She’s too smart to ever be tricked, or to ever be the victim of the same types of manipulations she’s constantly used against others”? Sigh … which is certainly a possibility with this writing team. Rather than her getting a bit of her own damned medicine, and “Her seeing the World as it really is” being more “Her seeing the world as someone else wanted he to”. Which seems far more interesting, and is less likely to validate such a frustrating selfish nihilist.
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With this case in particular, yes? I see it as more of being under duress, as in “you work for me or I’ll bring you back down here for good.” Sylvanas is naturally going to try to cozy up to someone like that just out of self-preservation.
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I think that’s giving her way too much benefit of the doubt with what we’ve seen of her. She seems to have genuinely drunk the coolaid, and if she really knew that he was the one who dragged her there (with her Primes working for him), she knows enough about the afterlife to find a Kyrian and get them to manually throw her to the Arbiter for real judgement.
At the end of the day its “Either he’s tricked her, and she’s ironically the victim of the same sort of crap she’s subjected so many others to” or its “She’s tricking him, and this being above even the Titans is falling hook line and sinker for quite literally the same crap she’s pulled with everyone else”. I personally far prefer the prior option. I genuinely do think she’s drunk the Coolaid on this, and does not realize it was entirely possible to yoink somone away from their destined afterlives to a chosen one b4 the system broke.
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I prefer the latter because her being tricked by the jailer gives me heavy “you can’t escape your abuser” vibes given that Shadowlands effectively partial-retconned the true source of her trauma to him instead of just Arthas. It’s bad enough that they made her ally with him in the first place.
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None of her abuse victims were able to escape her. Because that is exactly what her Forsaken were. Her abuse victims. So why does she get preferential treatment? Because she’s Sylvanas? And as far as I can tell, if she is being tricked, all the Jailor really did was give her a false narrative to operate as she chose off of. He gave her a little scare, and in service to avoiding that fate she largely led a path that would condemn her to it. There is nothing more classical Greek storytelling than that.
Regardless, if the Jailor is playing her … she’s his victim, but that would not necessarily make him her abuser. No more than a con artist would be the abuser of those they rob, even though they are still his victims. That would make him her manipulator. Arthas is her abuser, and if they start redeeming him then we’ll have something to talk about on that subject.
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Fair enough. The Greek irony thing is still assuming the jailer’s lying, though, and I think the fact that he was able to reach out and have his val’kyr show her is enough proof that he could back up a threat.
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I can still see Arthas being redeemed more so then Syl, worst crimes? Purging a city of people infected by a plague turning them into undead, while a demon went home to home to speed along the process. Second, betraying a group of mercenaries he paid to help him strand his men in northrend to continue hunting Malganus. Both pretty gnarly things, but after that point with the jailer influence being a big thing apparently the blame for DK/LK Arthas’ crimes seem to be getting set up to be thrown at the jailers feet.
Sylvanas however while retaining her free will, created a blight that decimated life and undeath wherever deployed thus making an area uninhabited. Raising more people into rotting corpses, thus turning them into monsters like the LK. Blighting gilneas, blighting southshore. Apparently pushing Varimathras and Putress into blighting both factions at the Wrathgate (kind of an odd one blizz), trying to enslave more Val’kyr to continue raising more people into rotting corpses. Starting the fourth war to create as much death as possible, honestly quite a litany of crimes but who knows if Arthas will be redeemed? They may keep DK Arthas in control of his actions during those times, might not but the point here is I don’t see a redemption for Syl.
We going to ignore him sacking Lordaeron, Dalaran, and killing off 90% of the blood elf race? People, please, I love Arthas too…but this desire to seem him redeemed is a bit over the top.
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Sylvanas’ motivations have never held up to close scrutiny, at least not since BfA started. I suspect it’s because this whole thing has been rewritten too many times by too many different people.
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Like I said those events seem to be attributed to jailer influence, if they say Arthas retained his free will during that? I’ll accept that, they seem to have been changing things though with this whole jailer thing though.
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Depends on their power at the time I suppose. Regardless, they were already operating on the Outside at the time of WotLK, and we still know next to nothing about them really. Least of all the primary one who “sacrificed” herself first. At the end of the day though, it really all depends on what she knows. Is he playing her? Is she playing him? Is he threatening her?
There are a lot of ways this story could go depending on that answer.
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Further back than WotLK, even. The jailer had to have some way of getting the lich king armaments out of the maw to begin with.
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The dreadlords more than likely, especially since they pushed Sargeras to start the legion.
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Definitely them. And since they were presumably made by Denathrius, then the Dread Lords likely not being OF the Maw could come and go with some level of freedom. The same seems to be true of Helya’s Mawsworn Val’kyr. They have a limited amount more of freedom then their Mawborne counterparts. The real question is when did these two ally with the Jailor? When did Mueh’zala? Kel’thuzad?
Up until now the Jailor has been operating through a lot of Proxy forces it seems.
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I’m certain that Helya became an ally of the jailer after we defeated her in legion, KT probably after wrath tbh, guy was probably recruited. And Muehzala? Probably after he faded into obscurity, and was on the verge of being completely forgotten and powerless.
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Alexandros Mograine is definitive proof to the contrary. He was one of Naxx’s Four Horsemen, he was trapped inside Frostmourne, and he’s in Maldraxxus.
I’d wager that if the Jailer hadn’t intervened Sylvans probably would have gone to Revendreth and then maybe Maldraxxus after her time there.
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Indeed, and seems to be what everybody’s been saying it. But how is that information not common knowledge enough that it slips by Sylvanas? Is it just her soul only that ends up in the Maw? The sheer amount of Undead not going to the maw could not possibly go unnoticed by her.
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