Swap AV sides

[Lannor-faerlina]

No disrespect intended, but statistically there is no way Allies simply being worse at the game can account for the current 80% loss statistic that has been recounted. There is no math that gets you to that number unless another factor(s) are involved to skew the results.

[Leafblight-dark-iron (Leafblight)]

Except the map is exactly the same. So you don’t get to use that as an excuse.

If it helps you can also say Horde were much worse back then, but that means we got better and you got WORSE.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Or alliance just aren’t willing to deal with hour long turtles anymore for a maybe 50/50 win rate.

[Leafblight-dark-iron (Leafblight)]

Then that’s on them and not a problem with the map.

Changing the map so you can win without having to actually beat the enemies strategy, “turtling is a completely valid strategy,” isn’t fixing an imbalance, it’s creating one.

[Bodicca-westfall]

People who claim there’s no problem with the map are just willfully ignorant.

AV is such a mess

Jesus Christ I havent seen somebody so completely disingenuous arguing in bad faith in a thread before Every single time somebody points out objective facts about the map, including distance, time traveled, respawn rates. Things which are clearly mathematically quantifiable, you continue to respond like the idiot you are with “But Alliance AFK!” What you apparently are unable to grasp, is that there is something that happens before the Alliance AFKs. Do you know what that is? Its the map being…

You DO know why Alliance started queue syncing in the first place, don’t you? That’s right - THEY HAD TO. Exact coordination and execution are fundamental just for an equal chance.

[Pollz-bloodsail-buccaneers]

No, they started forming premades because they the could. Literally no other reason was needed. Even if the Alliance had a massive advantage, and could form premades…they would have.

People premade in WSG, and its not because “THEY HAD TO” Its because they can.

[Bodicca-westfall]

Are you still trolling?

[Bledya-benediction]

Me? Of course. It’s more fun than the game.

[Pollz-bloodsail-buccaneers]

Or alliance just aren’t willing to deal with hour long turtles anymore for a maybe 50/50 win rate.

I mean, yes…exactly.

[Leafblight-dark-iron (Leafblight)]

If you mean Pollz he’s just saying the truth. If you are honestly saying Alliance wouldn’t premade for even the slightest advantage they could get from it then you are arguing in bad faith and don’t even belong here.

[Woopei-area-52 (Woopei)]

That’s right - THEY HAD TO. Exact coordination and execution are fundamental just for an equal chance.

Such hilarious victimhood. You just HAD to have a 40 man premade against a pug for a chance to win. lmao. Just lmao.

[Bodicca-westfall]

If you mean Pollz he’s just saying the truth. If you are honestly saying Alliance wouldn’t premade for even the slightest advantage they could get from it then you are arguing in bad faith and don’t even belong here.

Don’t tell someone who was THERE what was going on. Sitting in discord with a hundred strangers queue syncing was not PREFERABLE to solo queuing, and if the odds had been even no one would have considered it.

It wasn’t fun listening to the countdown, hitting join, and then hearing “ok everyone leave queue not enough,” then wait several minutes, do the whole thing over and then sit out because you didn’t get the right BG. That happened to EVERYONE. Sometimes people missed 4 or more BG queues in a row. This isn’t FUN. Who would do that if they didn’t have to? No one.

And even going into a premade we had to play damn near perfectly. If we lost FWGY too soon, or we didn’t send recallers back in time, or if someone asspulled the WM, we often lost the match.

What’s really frustrating is that the facts don’t matter. You ignore them and don’t care because it suits you.

[Woopei-area-52 (Woopei)]

And even going into a premade we had to play damn near perfectly.

7 minute zerg wins and perfect gameplay

[Bodicca-westfall]

Such hilarious victimhood. You just HAD to have a 40 man premade against a pug for a chance to win. lmao. Just lmao.

Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. That’s what Classic AV has shown to be A FACT. That’s how much of an advantage the Horde have in AV.

[Woopei-area-52 (Woopei)]

Weird, because it wasn’t a fact 15 years ago.

[Pollz-bloodsail-buccaneers]

AV is such a mess

How about just switch map sides? Blizzard would never do this. There’s literally a horde statue in front of their headquarters. Ion plays a horde character, always has played one and bragged about never touching Alliance: Let’s not forget the little jabs at Alliance: “Back in ICC there was the Hellscream buff, or whatever the buff was for people who were playing the wrong faction” - Josh Allen And there were two changes made to Classic AV because the poor, poor horde were getting camped in t…

This is the very same guy who thinks there is some sort of deep-state style anti-alliance conspiracy deep inside Blizzard…and that they named the buff in Icecrown Citadel “Hellscream” is proof of that.

I’ve done my very best to engage him honestly, but in the end…how do you have an honest talk with that.

[Lexi-incendius]

Alliance pugs already have a 50/50 win rate on the china servers, its not a balance issue its a player issue here.

[Bodicca-westfall]

Alliance pugs already have a 50/50 win rate on the china servers, its not a balance issue its a player issue here.

They also have fewer battlegrounds to queue from. Sometimes there are just 2. Very easy to premade that even with the changes Blizzard made. Apparently it is a balance issue.

[Bodicca-westfall]

Weird, because it wasn’t a fact 15 years ago.

You seem to think Alliance are worse players now, so what’s the difference?

Never mind. The fact is that AV was a totally different game before 1.12. That version lasted 5 months. The fact is there were fewer Horde players and more often than not the match would be 30H v 40A.

And like I said, it doesn’t matter what the facts are. You’ve already decided that Alliance are just “bad.”

[Leafblight-dark-iron (Leafblight)]

So yeah, TOTALLY arguing in bad faith. The inherrant advantages to premades insure you’d still be doing it today if you could.

If you really hated it so much you should be thanking Blizzard for breaking it.

And like I said, it doesn’t matter what the facts are. You’ve already decided that Alliance are just “bad.”

No, you and every other Alliance have decided that. You just haven’t admitted it to yourself. There is NO argument against the fact that Alliance won 60% of matches in Vanilla with this exact same map and without premades. This is historical data which you cannot contest. That simple FACT destroys any argument you could make blaming the map.