It doesn’t have to be combo points. Original Fury of the Eagle was mentioned earlier, which I think worked because it interacted with Mongoose Fury without being Eviscerate/Templar’s Verdict.
You’re acting like combining CS and JG is some sort of herculean task and then you bring up remove a 30 second cooldown for SV in a dismissive “just change SLP to do what deathblow already does and gestures vaguely change grenade juggler”
You miss that we’re talking about changes that involve Ret’s resource generators, while Explosive Shot does nothing for SV other than deal damage. The former has a greater impact on gameplay than the latter.
yes? that tends to happen when they’re designing things with abilities in mind lol. they make talents synergize? I don’t see your point.
“X ability happens automatically when you press Y ability” is not talent synergy. That’s just inserting something as an additional effect. Grenade Juggler could have just as easily been a proc that let you toss an additional 1-2 bombs, for one.
as SV you generate more tip stacks than you can spend on the preferred abilities, so you will invariable spend it on rs/mb. you will also use wfb un empowered and that’s a-okay.
That’s not comforting to hear, as it sounds like a worse version of a mechanic I already hated (FFXIV’s Dark Arts during Stormblood; the difference being that Dark Arts wasn’t a resource generator and it had no cooldown so it could be spammed between every GCD as long as you had the MP for it).
I have the feeling you are placing a ton of importance on MB5 that doesn’t need to be there
If you add a ramp-up mechanic with the end goal being reaching 5 stacks, it’s only logical that reaching 5 stacks should be important. Else it’d probably be better to remove the mechanic. Considering the bulk of SV’s talents revolve around Kill Command and bombs, it’d probably be easy to make a case for removing Mongoose Bite/Fury from the spec.
Original FotE was very weak and if it was in the game today you’d be complaining it’s a bad pay off.
The current gameplay loop is unique and offers a satisfying payoff. I’m not sure how you don’t se that.
You keep ignoring how the different cooldowns and vehicle of dealing the damage keeps the design space open and unique. You can easily combine JG and CS and layer the resource generator together.
And Templar’s Verdict could have easily just been a proc that happens after X crusader strikes.
this is changing in two weeks btw
I have the feeling no explanation will be comforting to you because you seem pretty decided already
This has been the importance of MB for nearly 7 years now I don’t know what to tell you
I think, generally speaking, the more things you can do (when it comes to basic damage rotation abilities) the more things you must do to optimize damage. If not, then those extra things feel superfluous and unnecessary. While you may argue that “you needn’t worry about that” because it’s not generally that good and unless you are doing it perfectly it won’t be much increase in your DPS, they certainly balance the damage assuming you could do the thing. Without the unnecessary complication, the gameplay loop has the freedom to be more fluid and natural, as well as more effective. The rotation doesn’t need to be Guitar Hero. You can make the encounter mechanics more complex if complexity is needed for variety.
Don’t try and talk to him anymore. As you mentioned, he’s demonstrating drut behavior. People do that when they know they’re wrong for being a fail but think they can win by talking over you and faking a nobler conduct.
I did far more and far better in the spec, which barely says anything because of how shortlived S3 and S4 were in SL which was because DF trashed it.
Let him spout nonsense about a class/spec that has, except for one season or two, failed miserably in everything. It’s his right and prerogative to fail, and our right and prerogative to see what failure looks like in order to avoid it. A “don’t-be-that-guy” lectureship material.
[The Jackal of Stormwind (@Stormwind_Jack) / X](h ttps://x.com/Stormwind_Jack)
If I do nothing else anymore in the forums, if I have nothing else, I look after those who are my friends. I taught him everything I know which means he’s more than capable in beating you in any form of Hunter competition and to put it to action your lack of credibility. He’s a fine pupil and I couldn’t be prouder; I would have thrown your goofy butt out of the #2 Retail Horde guild the first week. You did the right thing ignoring my friend, especially while I was gone. There is a healing.
Being mindful of the thread, SV doesn’t feel horrible in Classic. It’s going to stop being horrible in Mists or in future Phases. I don’t know why we would even talk about Retail SV here–who honestly gives a scat–because SoD is new and is newly updated, and Mists obviously has a much finer itineration than most of what Retail spewed out after Legion.
That —bigger damage— objectively is a payoff. It’s the whole reason for unlocks, early consumers, etc.
Remember, the value of something is just whatever extra relative %AP per time you can put out over what was possible without it (which, if there’s a talent cost, you then compare against the same for alternatives).
If you instead had a skill unlocked only at Max stacks, you’d just back-load the damage contribution that much more while otherwise accomplishing exactly the same thing (or quite likely with less nuance, contextual-dependence, or flexibility if said unlock itself had a CD)… except now at higher button cost.
Now, the early spender at least has some added nuance, so I wouldn’t terribly mind that.
It didn’t to what appeared a majority of SV players then, if only because it so reduced its use cases. It became an addendum to MF rather than a skill of interest in its own right. It was less “interaction with” than “crippling dependence on” / “subordination to” / “being overwhelmed by”.
No, it couldn’t, for the simple fact that each CS gives 1 of 5 HP, each TV spends only 3 of 5 HP, and there are higher priority actions to be woven between basic building and spending, thereby allowing for skill expression.
While Grenade Juggler is not entirely without skill expression, Gizolfi’s right that said expression has nothing to do with talent synergy; instead, it simply punishes you for KCing a non-central mob, on the off chance you apply an ES that then hits fewer targets than had you instead procced it on a more central enemy.
Which is fine. Sure, the spec will be balanced around people putting in the full effort, but so long as other specs have skill ceilings with halfway comparable amounts of effort required, that’s a good thing; it does you no harm in competing against others in your range of willingness to optimize and leaves further gameplay available for those willing to out in the effort despite increasingly (and heavily) diminishing returns.
As long as their rewards aren’t so great as to feel obligatory even to a casual player, we should have little tips and tricks beyond just fight specific optimizations because that extends the longevity of enjoyable gameplay across any and all content at little to no cost to accessibility.
I cringe to quote one of my snitches. I’d have more respect for you if you weren’t a PART of the reason I did six weeks. Consider yourself lucky you gave talking points I can expand on.
The irony that some classes, because of how darn good they are, can just frag you with half-effort or a quarter-effort.
That’s why I learned class>spec>comp>gear>skill from my GM, who learned it from a Wrath-era Rogue all those years ago. SKILL is the LEAST of all weights, though it’s still a weight.
Specs should not be balanced around full-effort skill. It needs to NOT OUTDO other specs and especially with gear. Just like determining the win, skill should be looked at last for figuring out balancing. Because unless hacks and exploits, the client-side cannot outdo the design.
What obligations should a casual player have? What does it matter how good the rewards are if they’re only going to play a few hours a week and unsub after a while? Casuals are not about the long haul; that’s core and hardcore talk.
If tier set bonuses and gear stayed in their own lane, it would still give a marginal edge that better skill could overcome lesser skill. Yet if your class/spec is trashed, you’re not winning anything.
The best thing to serve longevity is to make the class/specs equally viable with each other. Gear and skill cannot do the heavier lifting in this. SV will just keep getting ignored for groups and Bajheera’ed in PvP like it has been, unless it picks on lowbies later on in the cycle.
What Woodsy said. This…person…is the most insane narcissist I’ve ever encountered in a game. Absolutely psychotic levels of self aggrandizing. He has created this entire fantasy world where he is important. Claims of world firsts that don’t exist. An entire backstory that, as far as I can tell, two people care about. Fighting a ‘war’ that doesn’t exist against people who literally have no idea they are participating.
The twitter account is pure, unadulterated cringe. The entire goal, is to rope people in to feel important and get banned…again. So they can claim some sort of victory against the wow deep state. Don’t engage. Don’t quote. Don’t waste your time. They will be here for a few weeks in every single post derailing and roleplaying. Then they will be gone again.
Don’t get me wrong, the trash they post is funny to read, the twitter account is a fascinating example of sociopathy. That said directly communicating with them is a bad idea as it is EXACTLY what they want.
It’s that what most of these posts become lately? Just into off topic ramblings of whose opinion is most compelling. Haven’t read a well constructed argument in some time.
Think there’s a few others who stalk the forums that can be under that category as well.
I don’t know about that, he just tried to bring up as many points as possible and if you pointed out how flimsy his points were he just said you were deflecting. He at least had passion, I guess?
No, they bring in the World of Warcraft classic manual and show the page that they photo copied. That showed the description of Hunters as being a range only class. That’s how they would return an argument. Random facts from legit sources.
Now it’s down to if you don’t agree I’ll just bring up how you still not cleared Mythic, so I win. It’s a measurement contest now than actual facts.
No. Do you know how long I’ve been in the can and now been in witness protection? That puts me out of the loop on who’s who and what’s what.
I know nothing about “Ghonhir” and why that toon came to be. I can take the time to do some forum history research, going back to the DF days.
On my 𝕏, I can post plenty of salty BFA-era moments, like I did with Windlordxo-GrizzlyHills. I scrnshotted many of them. I can show you what you claim I have abundantly. I got a juicy one from a certain shammy named “Lavaburst” back then.
𝕏, thanks to the Musk, is going to be helpful in this, very bigly. So instead of using this platform, I’ll use 𝕏. You might want to thank Baridorielor of the GD forums because he was actually the very person that motivated me to create an account there. Mr. Musk is also doing an excellent bang-up job, way better than silly Jack Dorsey.
There’s a world-first for everything you can think of, so that makes no sense.
This is the good news: the Hunters that are smart, savvy, motivated, and have a mind to work on something are not going to have issues with me. I have NEVER had an issue with such a Hunter main. The only people I had issues with are those Didn’t-Earn-Its that just want to argue and make drama.
It’s better to be silent and to actually mind your business(the Fugio cent definition) than to communicate with me wrongly. I’m not getting in the way of serious Hunters at all. Not, at, all. 𝕏, now I see, is going to be helpful in this as well, very bigly.
Whatever that’s about, they can’t blame someone who’s been doing too much hard time and also had to be in the program. I was motivated by a rather spicy French action movie to make this account to use, and I’m digging the new Peta Wilson look.
Let the record show I have nothing to do with that. I have just as much the capability to go full Nietzsche, and it’s taking some of what I got not to go down that dark path…
You’ve been backbiting at me through my friends. That’s a form of disrespect that gets nowhere constructive. Like I did with Baridorielor, you’re more than welcome to come into my office in 𝕏 and talk about your issues, such as why you’re bad at WoW, bad at Hunter, bad at school, bad in dating, bad at life in general, or whatever. You can do that instead of gossiping about me behind my back, so you always had better choices.
It’s the only reason my audience on 𝕏 knows what they know, because I have to tell them TRUTHFULLY you’re part of the reason I’ve done hard time and part of the reason otherwise-honest class discussion gets disrupted.
A sellout elitist. I used to approve of his fight for RSV, which now it has BARELY won a margin against MSV. I was the one who theorized that he retired after that became apparent. He would be happy that years and years of nigh-endless posts and threads have finally produced MSV’s eternal failure in Retail.
SoD is where any Hunter who wants to melee should be. I bet there’s TONS of current and active Hunters there. I know Isto has one in Lone Wolf. A Tauren, I recall.
Because of SoD Runes and with Phase 5 in play, you can choose to either be ranged or melee, have a pet or not have a pet. Because Flamestrike the Crawler has been forcibly removed from the outer cloisters, we’re seeing the truest Vanilla Hunter.
Maybe that’s where Bepples is right now, because it’s what I ultimately did as well. Because we don’t normally discuss Classic in these forums, Bepples–having fully invested in Classic–would no longer have anything to discuss. It’s just a theory…a GAME THEORY.
As I said about him: sellout elitist. Gotta take that with a grain of salt. You can BUY clears just like ratings; I’d pay more attention to the accomplishments you can’t realistically buy.
I’m just as bothered that I can’t cite some sites that may do some illegal things on the side, as if WoWHead DOESN’T do that because geography, that you can’t even hope to have a cogent and well-supported factual argument. Six weeks is too long to disclose a site far better organized and managed than WoWHead.
It’s not worth it to me to do that anymore, so this community lost that. I’d rather save my money, or just ask you lol. If everyone here is so obsessed with wanting sources, that should automatically mean they know the sources I pull from but don’t cite.
