You can actually kill a hunter through turtle with trick shots if pets are close enough to the hunter. I was wrong about that one too. The damage does not show up on the combat log or details but definitely goes off on the hunter. It doesn’t matter how long ago the hunter cast turtle. Just volley and send something at something close to it. I tested splitting ice and sweeping strikes under identical circumstances and they do not behave the same way as blade flurry or trick shots.
Any discussion about a swing time or animation timer aside, I really don’t think this is working as advertised. Should a “deflect” really not count if the deflect is a ricochet or copy type effect instead of a splash aoe? Like why is there that specific difference? Does anything else just not work in those types of obscure circumstances? Why is sweeping strikes and splitting ice different from trick shots and blade flurry? Do any other things that kill you through cooldowns just not show up on the combat log or details?
yes, it should. idk if i remembered to hit post earlier but every tier i’ve bothered to raid, turtle lets you stroll through lethal crap on the floor of a raid encounter and deflected it just fine.
because pvp in this game is an afterthought. flurry and trick shots and anything else letting a player manually cast an ability while you’re in turtle and damage you with it is a bug. the only case i could MAYBE see is some specific thing like malefic rapture being allowed to make your dots flare up if they remain on you inside the turtle, but it wouldn’t surprise me to find out that that’s not how that one works; i’m just speculating about what would “feel” intuitive to the way the game’s made
there are two unrelated threads to that bug in here.
to the first one: there are 0 situations where a warrior spamming parry out of a stun and a hunter spamming turtle out of a stun will get different results. if an attack subject to the buff’s deflection is fired at the same fraction of a second as the buff, the server will not take pity on you.
to the second one: sure, say the prior circumstance “should” go differently till you’re blue in the face, blizzard couldn’t care less. it seems pretty likely that the spell calculation window in this game is happening at a layer even further underground than “no flying in the exodar”. either the base game or the netcode pvp uses do not permit anything to happen to calculated damage except retroactive modifications to what damage a healthbar receives-absorbs or immunities, full stop.
the reason survival tactics confers a giant absorb shield is-in light of this, i feel comfy saying “obviously”-to account for this whole calculation issue. it gives you a 90/10 ignore pain for the 1 second window because the devs know that 1 second of 90% damage reduction would only be useful when specially constructed, unlike most other defensives in game, to act on spells already in the air
Completely agree. It’s a functional immunity in the cases when it’s a functional immunity, which is a lot.
You’re still asserting that the ability is both bugged and functioning properly at the same time. There are very specific sets of things designed to go through evasion and parry. The abilities say this goes through dodge, block, and parry. There are very specific things designed to dispel very powerful abilities that can’t be dispelled with normal dispels. The abilities say this ability dispels things that can’t normally be dispelled. PvE encounters are scripted, and you can use turtle with the forethought and knowledge as to which specific raid mechanics that you can walk over and when you need to press turtle to avoid them. The ones that go through turtle are well enough known that you don’t try to immune them with turtle. At very least, the pvp mechanics as to which spells go through turtle and which don’t is completely random, and like you said, an afterthought. To come to this conclusion and still be like yeah this button does what it is supposed to is not logical.
if you can read this and fail to intuit that i am talking about a hypothetical attack that is parryable, you are reading in such bad faith that discussion is pointless. i don’t see how this:
could possibly be topical if you’re saying anything else, though.
it’s not clear how you misread this sharply.
every single ability in the game fails to include this statement: “will apply to enemy players’ spells hit chance and damage value only if their firing is completed before you activate this button”. despite not spelling that out in the tooltip, every single ability in the game functions in that manner
the fact that demonbolt was bugged to kill through ice block in wod, or blade flurry is now bugged for the second time to work through turtle, has no relationship at all to the above property
am i reading you correctly in thinking that the new stance is “because turtle is vulnerable to the bugged intrusion of blade flurry and trick shot damage, we should chalk up to unique, buggy behavior any and all perceived(exclusively by hunter players) differences between how turtle affects spell calculations and how every other cd affects them”?
edit: we found out less than a month ago that blizzard considers incap roar being parryable to be a bug. that was in the game for years!
in that light this moves from a silly thing to say to an insane one
No, there is no new stance. The animation window condition is really hard to replicate. Blade flurry going through turtle as shown in the test that bandit did shows that the timing of you casting turtle in relation to blade flurry going through it has no relevance. That’s its own bug that has nothing to do with animation windows or swing timers. It’s worse. Before I saw that video, what I was acting on was information based on a test with this condition:
I fully admitted being wrong about my assessment about the awc video after they did this test. I tested it wrong. I didn’t know enough about blade flurry when I set up the test to know to do it a certain way. I’m completely fine being wrong about the bug. But it’s a bug. You’re acting like it’s just fine that turtle has bugs because it’s somehow balanced around them in a way similar to parry being a primarily melee-centric defensive cooldown. It’s not the same. The things that go through it are not set up in a logical pattern like the others, and hunter is not built around that type of defensive cooldown. It’s built around having a very powerful one with the weakness of having to precast or trinket into instead of using reactively.
I dont know man. I’ve hit turtle early and still took chaos bolts, etc to the face. Personally think there’s a bug in the code some place. I would f’in love to trade turtle for sham rage. I’d buy the entire pvp team beers for a month if they did that… domestic not import…
I just want to note, that while starsurge is an instant cast, it does not land instantly. It is a projectile with a travel speed of 45 yards per second for balance, and 28 yards per second for the other 3 specs.
So the druid had to be somewhere between 27 and 40 yards from the Hunter, and has between a 1ms and 288ms window where it could have cast star surge and had it “correctly” go through. That’s a pretty tight window.
Now imagine two warriors at 50 health both queueing attacks into each other. One picks execute and the other picks mortal strike. Execute has an undocumented delay between when you press it and when it accomplishes it’s function, maybe an entire global (1500ms), despite being “instant”. The warrior that picks mortal strike actually has much more than 288ms to “win” that interaction. Your global use can queue in almost an entire 1.5s after the execute and still “win” that interaction. The combat log isn’t going to prove out which one was actually cast first, it’s going to prove out which one landed first.
Travel time delay seems to be all over the place, especially when paired with a players latency. A spell counting for its full damage a full second after a defensive is used is pretty absurd. A LOT can happen in a second.
