Yeah after thinking about it some more I think season 1 as a talent choice makes a lot more sense. It’s just a fun gameplay proc that a lot of other melee classes already have access to.
S1 has certain involvements, too, that players may find annoying (greatly increases reward for shuffling KC’s back to before 5-stack MBs if and only if you proc the empowered free MB/Butch; further RNG dependence, etc.)
- Granted, it’s damn strong for a single talent, so you could probably split it separately into the free-strike (just more RNG dependence and some anti-synergy with KC talents) and that free-strike being empowered (which adds new optimizations).
Moreover, with so many %dmg nodes… por que no los dos? Have both interesting but sometimes, to some people, undesireable effects be talents, replacing the dull ones.
To me, the only necessity baselines are the melee replacements for basic attacks and actions (e.g. Raptor Strike, Muzzle, etc., without losing access to Arcane Shot and Countershot) and essentially just (a beefed up) Carve, and Harpoon with reset on kill (but no Focus over time on use) since it might otherwise be avoided for raw damage over fun or flavor.
- And Frenzied Strikes if and only if there’s no alternative*.
*Ideally one where taking both would have anti-synergy in that redundancy, and with SV AoE nonetheless tuned around taking just the one, allowing them still to deal decent ST dps simultaneously.
Carve and raptor strike should be both be baseline. Survival is the only spec in the game that has to buy every single one of their dps abilities with talents. You can’t even play survival until level 10, you have to use a ranged weapon before that, because of the lack of a baseline raptor strike. We are also required to take raptor strike, but then have the stronger and more optimal talent later down below, basically forcing us to spend 2 required points on the core ability for the spec instead of just 1, again, like everyone else.
2 Likes
Sorry, I forgot to repeat mention of baselining Raptor Strike.
That said, Mongoose Bite is not always taken. Across S3’s set, it was rarely used in M+ among high-key logs. Nor do all players enjoy playing around it. It should remain an option, just as opting into Butchery and Brutal Slash should over their respective bases*, and possibly in varying forms (e.g., a Legion-esque additive to RS vs. an outright replacement for it).
- *(Though, Carve should have its CD and/or Focus cost reduced atop a damage buff, with Butchery likewise dealing more damage than it presently does to be a solid but non-obligatory talent choice.)
I agree, mongoose bite isn’t always taken, so it makes sense that MONGOOSE BITE is still a talent, but raptor strike should be base line. And mongoose bite should not be a required talent. Instead things like harpoon and wildfire bomb should be required, like wildfire bomb should be our #1 talent in the spec tree because it’s really the only unique thing they ever build around. It seems silly to me that you can build a survival hunter without aspect of the eagle or harpoon, which are rather unique to survival. It just seems like lazy design from top to bottom, like they threw whatever in place and never iterated on it and said good 'nuff.
Again, I had mentioned baselining Raptor Strike (or rather, baselining having advantaged replacements for basic attacks and utilities when using a melee weapon and within melee range of one’s enemy) and merely neglected to repeat it in successive posts to the same individual. I’m in complete agreement that Raptor Strike should be baselined, just ideally in a more comprehensive and versatile way (part of a larger and less punishing passive that’d still allow for Countershot, etc., when out of one’s melee range, for when matters more than the shorter cooldown).
As for Wildfire Bomb, I’d be relatively fine with it being the top node but, so long as we continue to build around pets and WFB sees nothing at all unique until WFI, a 1-pt TotS or Harpoon (effectively baselining it so long as there is a point of savings elsewhere) or the like seems the still-better choice.
- Since we don’t get choice nodes in our top-slot, moreover, that would also free up WFB to carry an alternative for those who really do not like the aesthetic of using books on what otherwise seems to them the most “primal” spec of Hunter.
Aspect of the Eagle, on the other hand, I never cared for, as it always just degraded other, imo more interesting, optimizations you’d otherwise have to make for maintaining relative uptime. I’m glad to see it optional, though it probably ought to be a bit more flexible and/or frequent to at least be competitive as an option for more than just the least skilled players for most PvE fights.
Survival’s main issue is just lack of design iteration.
The spec talent tree going into TWW has a below average number of nodes across all dps specs (with 39.6 being average and survival having just 36), the highest count and largest % of 2 point nodes with 14 total 2-point nodes across 36 nodes total means a whopping 39% of all spec nodes are 2 point nodes, with beast mastery trailing at 37% and the next highest being the new affliction at 27% and dropping from there. So the low node count, and the fact that every dps ability is purchased with those nodes, and half the 2 point nodes are just passive % increase damage to the abilities you just purchased with other talent points, means there’s very little options compared to every single other spec. They took what already existed, split it up into as many talents as they could, and that’s what we got.
If you want to max out your mongoose bite base damage, you’re spending a talent on raptor strike, a talent on mongoose bite, two talents on sweeping spear, two more on spear focus, for a total of 6 talent points that yield a single ability that does +20% damage from when it bought it. That’s just really poor design, because they’ll tune the damage of mongoose bite baseline around their desire for players to take 0 to 4 of those talents anyway.
Luca, is this to me? The notifications are calling it a reply to me, but it doesn’t have anything to do with my post, so I’m a bit confused.
None of what I’ve said disagrees with anything you’ve written. I merely pointed out that I’d rather Survival’s baselined Raptor Strike be in the form of a single passive that changes ALL your basic attacks and actions (Arcane Shot, Countershot, Multi-shot, etc.) with a melee variant (Raptor Strike, Muzzle, Carve) into those empowered/enhanced melee variant forms when in melee range and using a melee weapon, so that going Survival acts as a bonus rather than a penalty.
I was just replying on the thread, I’m not arguing, just additional comments. Also, why do replies always have to be in disagreements? You sound on edge my friend.