Back when the change hit I made a lot of comments that it should have been a 4th spec. I do not want melee removed for the dozens that enjoy it (hahaha only kidding) because I’ve had a spec pulled out from under me and it sucks. Wouldn’t want it to happen to someone else.
I’m guessing Fire will be changed to melee soon…
That’s talent the dev team no longer has.
Dark ranger/shadow hunter could fit the bill.
It would still be a complete mess to sort out. Both functionally as well as in terms of balancing.
I would argue not.
Dark Rangers are a prestige class(in WoW, a sub-faction specific type of character) which are as much casters as they are rangers. Also, their type of magic is not in tune with that of Hunters. They utilize unholy magic and necromancy.
Shadow hunters are part of the shamanistic side. Partially also a prestige class, though a bit less restricted compared to Dark Rangers and what they are for the Forsaken.
Why? Hunters have 2 ranged specs already, and if you change survival back to ranged there will be no melee option for them.
Not all hunters want to use a bow/crossbow/gun, some want to fight up close alongside their pet. Survival fills that role, representative of heroes such as rexxar, or things like troll shadow hunters.
What is it about survival that you like so much, or that you think even fits a ranged spec?
I would LOVE to see Survival go back to ranged! I would also be interested too see in how many players who have hunters as their main actually play survival. From what I have seen in raids and pvp most are playing one of the ranged specs and very few play survival. Of course i don’t come in contact with all of the millions of players in WoW so what just i see is not a complete sample base, so would be curious to see the ration of Surv. hunters compared to one of the ranged specs on main hunter toons.
We used to have 3 different ranged specs that catered to different playstyles and fantasies. Having said that…
I agree that changing current SV back to ranged is not a good solution.
It would not solve the problem. Only change it’s current state somewhat.
Agreed.
A lot of things.
It was not about big hits and burst windows. It was much more consistent in it’s approach to dealing damage. It’s abilities catered to the concept of dealing damage over time(DoT). Which many players liked/like.
As for the theme, it was intended to fill the fantasy of a tracker that did not focus on the archery side/sharpshooting which you did as a MM hunter. Ranged SV focused on being a munitions expert that was very skilled in mixing together lethal poisons and extracting/applying potent animal venoms to the ammunition/arrows used. As well as attaching explosive devices that scorched the target.
Another part of ranged SV that many players liked, was how it focused on hunter Traps, and how to improve them. Something that the other hunter specs did not really do at all.
If you then look at what ranged SV could be like in the game today, it could be the spec that(contrary to MM) has some optional choices to rely more on pets. And, it could still have that Lone Wolf option at the same time.
It’s okay that MM is the spec which doesn’t promote the use of pets in any way. That just opens up the option to let other specs do this. Note that I’m not saying that ranged SV should have baseline involvement with pets beyond perhaps the mere basics(much like MM can).
The above, are the bigger parts of what (IMO) made, and even could make, ranged SV a great spec that a lot of hunters would like to play as.
Not to mention how the DoT style of ranged SV was a great basis for a hunter spec which could provide the class with additional mechanical strengths in combat. Such as the capability to deal with multiple spread out targets at the same time(multi-dotting). Something that we’re currently not so good at.
I haven’t played Hunter since Vanilla, so I’m not going to get into this debate, but I do have a question:
Given that MM is a ranged spec, and to some degree BM, can’t you take the ranged things you like from Survival, sprinkle it into the other two trees (or make it baseline) and make Survival a Polearm spec?
Again, I don’t care and I won’t die on this hill, but it seems logical. Furthermore we could really use what amounts to a Red Viper play style in the game. Melee hunters would be enough of an inspiration to get me back to the class to try it out.
Survival is the only enjoyable hunter spec though…
Instead of ruining melee as an option for hunters, why not just make marksman and BM fun again? that makes alot more sense than gutting a unique and fun spec.
When they changed survival to melee, hunter became a 2 spec class to me. If I want to dps as melee there is:
Outlaw Rogue
Subtlety Rogue
Assassination Rogue
Windwalker Monk
Havoc Demon Hunter
Frost Death Knight
Unholy Death Knight
Arms Warrior
Fury Warrior
Feral Druid
Enhancement Shaman
Retribution Paladin
Throwing survival in with the already glut of melee dps classes, most of whom do not have a ranged alternative, was not needed and ruined a spec that was a favorite of many hunters, myself included.
But seeing as how there are some people who enjoy the current version of survival, I guess the only fair compromise would be to add a 4th spec, but that is unrealistic and doubt it will ever happen, so I guess it is just 2 specs from here on out.
You’er not alone,
We need range Survival Hunters back
exactly what i want lol Rexxar has been one of my fav chars since WC3
I actually like the Beast Master fantasy, so I can’t say I’m emotionally invested either way, but…
I think Survival should bring something other than being able to stack on other melee, if they remain a melee spec. Right now, Survival, Enhance, and Feral are hurt by the fact that they COULD be ranged, but opted not to be. Maybe “Flanking Strike” should be flanking like in D&D or Pathfinder - synergy with other melee characters that exists outside of boss mechanics, affixes, or AoE healing that rewards stacking.
With Survival it’s time to stop thinking about bandaid fixes we can apply to compensate for it being melee and start thinking about whether it should be melee in the first place.
It definitely should be, I see absolutely no reason for a class to have 3 ranged specs when a melee spec is suitable for it lore-wise.
There have been plenty of melee hunters in the lore - troll shadowhunters and rexxar just to name a few. Making survival another ranged spec just makes it blend in even more with marksman and beast mastery. At least those two are actually distinct at the moment, with one not using pets and the other going all in on pets. Survival as a ranged spec offers nothing that marksman or BM couldnt already offer.
What Survival needs, IMO (and this goes for a LOT of current specs, not just hunter/survival), is the ability to pick their weapon type. Why limit it to 2h staffs/polearms when hunters used to be able to dual wield just fine? This is the same issue with frost DKs being dual wield only now, and enhancement shamans no longer have 2h, and fury warriors forced into dual 2handers. These pigeonholed weapon layouts that blizzard has given us no choice on really dull the game down.
IMO, the only thing that Survival needs is the ability to get Lone Wolf as an option.
-edit-
Alright, as Nightlynx pointed out… they could also use the ability to pick the weapon type ala old school hunters and melee hunters in lore.
Without further changes lone wolf couldnt really work for survival, since kill command is their primary resource generator and a huge part of damage for the spec.
You’d have to replace kill command with another attack that functions similarly on top of adding lone wolf.
It’s funny how I’m reading this when I see everyone saying that Survival overlapped too much with MM.
It’s also funny how you pretend it’s more distinct from BM now when in BFA it has to steal several iconic abilities from BM. Ranged SV didn’t use Kill Command, for example, but melee SV does.
It’s ridiculous how you’re still here posting these lies about ranged SV.
I know your modus operandi is declaring nonsense about ranged SV and leaving the thread, ignoring all explanations why you’re wrong, so there’s no chance at all any of this gets to you. But this is for the sake of everyone else reading.
It absolutely had an identity as the utilitarian Hunter spec that dealt damage via augmenting its shots with poisons and explosives. That’s a strong, flavourful identity and people liked it. You pretending that it was just “MM but different” is just as baseless as pretending Affliction is just “Destruction but different”.
It had a better focus on poisons and traps and that’s what made it the spec that focused on those. Plus, in its last expansion it was actually the only spec with Serpent Sting. Saying its bonuses doesn’t count because some Survival stuff was available in other specs is doubling down on that “specs must be different classes with nothing in common” attitude that is now admitted by Blizzard to be a bad idea.
Current Survival is the one that has no identity. Two of its abilities are bland melee filler that could easily fit in the Warrior class (Raptor Strike, Carve). Two of its abilities are just stolen straight from BM (Kill Command, Coordinated Assault). The final 2 abilities are actually kind of nice because they fit that “utilitarian” side of ranged SV, too bad they don’t fit a melee spec at all (Serpent Sting, Wildfire Bomb). It’s three separate identities competing for prominence, and the only one of those that has any uniqueness/merit is the one that doesn’t fit for a melee spec at all. Calling out ranged SV for having “no identity” when this is the state of melee SV is extreme projection.
What a misinformed, biased comment. You are clearly speaking from a position of proud ignorance.
Explosive Shot, Serpent Sting, Black Arrow, and Lock and Load contributed towards creating a very interesting and fun spec. If you want to see “tacked-on”, look to the current melee spec which has 3 incongruous identities competing for prominence. Is it a melee skirmisher? A beast master? A utilitarian like ranged SV? All three, apparently.
But what would a Rogue know, anyway?
This is revisionism. Ranged SV had only diverged in its identity and playstyle in later expansions. It played the important role of representing the aspect of Hunters that included buffing its ranged attacks with special effects. This side of the class is now severely lacking because of SV going melee.
Why should you people be afforded a level of respect and security in the knowledge that your spec will remain that you didn’t offer to us?
Or, get this, we should stop shoving “variety” down people’s throats and essentially deleting people’s favourite playstyles to replace them with something else just because it’s “different”?
Variety is not automatically a good thing. They could have made SV a healing spec. That would be far more variety in the class, but I don’t think I need to explain why that would be a horrible idea.
You already have 13 melee weapon user specs in this game. There are 11 ranged classes, and of those 9 are casters. That leaves 2 specs in the game that use ranged weapons. And you think one more is too much? You’re hilariously biased.
Legion SV was the worst iteration of any Hunter spec ever. It utterly failed to represent the class identity and was a haphazard blend of random, tenuously-related abilities. As such, it was the least popular spec in the game by a huge margin for its entire existence.
Lol. 1.7.0 vastly improved the class and especially Survival. Hunters were very happy with the update. Absolutely no one cared about Survival before 1.7.0, and even before then Survival still had and used a ranged weapon.
P.S. Before anyone gets pedantic: yes, that’s hyperbole: I’m sure you can find a handful of people who cared about pre-1.7 Survival, but it was a largely pointless spec that the overwhelming majority of Hunters never bothered with.
… because we were here first?
Cool. I like to play a HUNTER as my main, and I’ll be damned if they continue to cater to people of a different class in case they make a Hunter alt some day.
Stick to your own class. I don’t go around demanding Arms gets made into a ranged weapon user.
Just like Rooikat: I don’t care about your Hunter alt. Many Hunter mains were screwed over by making Survival melee.
Three non-Hunters in a row demanding the class caters to them instead of actual Hunters 
The game already has 12 other melee weapon specs. Why do we need to force a melee spec into the only class that uses ranged weapons?
The class was explicitly defined around ranged weapons. If they wanted a melee option, it should be an optional subspec of BM via a talent. There is simply not enough audience in this class or even outside of it to justify a melee-only Hunter spec, it clashes with the class identity, and it caused the removal of an existing ranged spec. It was the absolute worst way they could have possibly handled it.
Gunning (ironic) for a purely melee Survival spec has been tried and failed in Legion. Ranged weapons have been core to the class identity since the beginning. It doesn’t make sense to have a spec that just totally ignores that essential part of our identity and tries to be a slightly-different Warrior instead.
So enjoyable next to no one plays it.
Obviously Survival is the problem spec here. It’s the one that’s always deeply unpopular and getting remade every expansion now. Trying to deflect criticism to BM and MM is not going to work.
So, in your mind, there is only room in this game for 1 spec that properly utilises a ranged weapon?
That’s atrocious. Look at how many different varieties of “swing a stick” they can come up with. 13 different melee specs and you are seriously telling me there is not enough room for 3 ranged specs?
MM and ranged SV do not do the same thing. One is themed around sharpshooting while one is themed around augmented projectiles. If you think they are not distinct enough, feel free to explain to me what sort of standards for spec differentiation you came up with that somehow excuses Arms and Fury, or Destruction and Affliction, or Discipline and Holy, but apparently says Survival and MM aren’t different enough.
Do you get a kick out of posting misinformed nonsense about Hunters all the time?
Oh, good. So, in a class defined around ranged weapons and pets, we can have a spec that has neither.
Are you people going to continue pretending that you give a damn about the Hunter class identity or have you given up on that?
My bad hes not a alt anymore same here i don’t care about your ego.
Maybe we should be asking why hunters are the only class that uses ranged weapons, instead?
it’s long past time that outlaw rogues go full on gunslinger with pistols and hand crossbows becoming actual weapon types.
You’ve gone on and on with attacking everyone else in this thread because they arent bending over backwards for the way YOU want to play, while giving nobody else the kind of respect or consideration you’re demanding here.