We’re just going to have to agree to disagree. You have one idea in mind and that’s the only correct idea apparently. While your opinion is fine and acceptable remember that other opinions matter as well.
So, they also had the resources and knowledge of how to make explosives too?
The versatility comes from SV ability to switch from melee spec to range spec on the fly. This is done through Aspect of the Eagle that good for PvP and times you need to move out of danger. Sure, range is nice but for 15 seconds every 1.5 minutes? It has limited use unless you are stuck in a long fight.
Why not just give SV a talent that will replace Raptor Strike for Black Arrow. The spec has two attacks that need you to be in melee range. The rest are range, so not much else would need to be reworked. It would open up more play-styles and let you chose how you want play SV.
The original trees represented a aspect of the hunter class. With each strengthening one area, pets(BM), range(MM), and melee(SV) combat. Hunters melee attacks were designed for defensive and were used to get out of melee. Either they were weak or slowed your enemy to get back to range.
Blizzard didn’t have a change of mind suddenly because SV was supposed to be melee. Hunters were a range class, but Blizzard wanted to give each spec a identity, so they reintroduce those melee abilities and stripped SV of range.
What an asinine comment. How many ways can you swing a sword, or throw fireballs? By your logic and spec that use same weapons is just not necessary as it already taken by another.
That would be great fit for a spec that trying to survive and throwing bombs. You not going to get close to something like that.
Also be used on allies that way SV has a use to groups.
More trap types yes but not bombs. You think hunter and setting traps are a theme that comes to mind. Throwing bombs at your target scaring all the quarrying around you does not make a good idea.
You know what is the rarest player in WoW? A SV player, I can count everyone I have seen cause it was such a rare sight. Think players play SV just cause it is such a niche spec and they want to stand out.
I agree that with out a few talents to add some complexity to the rotation SV is very lacking in excitement. It has a rotation that does not change between situations, you throw your DoTs and smack it with a stick. They need to go back to Legion and look at it again.
That rotation is based on talent choices. What if you had decided not to use Bloodseeker or Wildfire infusion? How much of a change is that to your rotation? Is it still dynamic or is now slowing down?
If a interesting play-style is locked behind talents then it is hindering some players from enjoying SV fully.
Funny isn’t that. Blizzard wanted to give SV an identity from the other two specs for Legion reworking the they whole spec goving it separate abilities that the other spec did not have. However, that did nothing to bring in more players, so they just remade it once more by taking abilities from BM.
Yes.
That might be just cause it has the least abilities from the other melee specs. I run out of space on my action bar for some of the other specs abilities over SV, which is simple and straightforward.
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Its not a new concept. We have explosives in wow as far as lore goes.
I mean… that’s not a SV specific problem though many specs suffer from this. Point being is that the depth is there and ignoring it is just wilful ignorance.
I agree though that more things that are talent choices should be added baseline to many specs to increase their depth of playstyle.
I mean, I see far less feral druids than I do SV hunters so… I guess that’s your take?
And hell yeah, having niche specs or people that want to stand out is good for the game.
A large proportion of why this or that spec is lower in popularity is because of
A) stigma
B) the meta / underperformance or
C) not fully understanding the capabilities or abilities of a spec and so writing it off, following the crowd.
It feels damn good to play as a spec that “everyone” disregards and completely blowing their perceptions out of the water.
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I could walk around for hours and not see a single SV hunter.
Druid is the most popular class and youre trying to imply feral is rare…
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Because that’s what I see? /facepalm
Just last night I was in a key with not 1, but 2 SV hunters.
I can’t even remember the last time I was in a key with a feral druid.
Perceptions and experiences can be different
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well if you are basing it on Mythic+ that is because feral is bad in M+… it is like me claiming I dont see any Mistweaver monks and my pool sample is from Arenas.
Mistweaver is terrible in arenas atm.
Survival is also perfect in the stance of representing early-aged hunters who used spears to hunt. FYI bows weren’t the first hunting weapons…
You go from using historical examples to strengthen your arguments to a completely fantasy setting. Early man used spears yes but the first confirmed reference to what can be considered gunpowder was in the 9th century AD in China, which lead to the creation on guns around AD 1000.
So, no SV is not a good representation of Ancient Hunters. They would be far closer to the movie Rambo version of a hunter.
That is it though, SV core abilities need some excitement. Many of those talents are not acquired until higher levels, and if the core of SV is not able to hook players it many be a result of there being such few of them.
Adding more variety to traps and taking talents as core abilities is a good start at making the rotation dynamic. Traps could be hurled at targets like WfB, Mongoose Bite could be based line, and Raptor would be used as its execute than Kill Shot.
I think it is first:
A) When player think of choosing a Hunter it is they still think of it as a rang class that uses pets. It had all three specs as range for years, which two are still, and not everyone is aware that SV is melee now.
B) Players are still not being invited and that is more cause of how many melee spec we have now. Many also bring more than just DPS or if need can switch roles if needed. SV is just DPS with some CC, but BM and MM has same capabilities. SV needs a stand out ability that gives it a push over Rogues or Warriors.
C) Method used SV for their Mythic fight against Gul’dan, so they saw it had potential. It’s a spec that’s extremely solid dps in the hands of an above average player but considering how much easer ranged is vs melee there’s almost no reason to bother. It could have great damage out put but you miss one step, or have to move out melee and it drops.
Your unique cause you play a spec that so few have seem, but how may player has that grab their attention to try SV? Are they simply interested cause it such rare sight or are they captured by its play-style? Survival was changed 5 Years and 3 Months ago and has been on the bottom of least played specs. Although, there is a fan base that will die for it there needs to be something more that will appeal to a larger group. As of right now it looks like even Blizzard has mostly forgotten about Survival, the one thing they can remember is that it throws bombs, which is again a range ability. Either Blizzard will just keep putting SV on the back burner or keep on reworking in more range abilities.
Eh, instead of being reworked it’d be awesome to just add as another spec.
I really want Blizzard to add another spec onto classes next expansion, and for Hunter, adding the old survival back as a other spec would be the perfect addition.
Okay but instead it is melee beast Mastery with bombs.
Just look at its abilities.
Coordinated Assault
You and your pet attack as one, increasing all damage you both deal by 20% for 20 sec.
While Coordinated Assault is active, Kill Command’s chance to reset is increased by 25
This is it’s dps cooldown, sure sounds like a BM offensive CD
I could swear I heard that Survival’s mastery is just bad and needs to be replaced with a melee focus boost or something like that? Or perhaps a trap damage boost instead.
Yeah, who doesnt remember reading history books about stone age hunters running around throwing frigging SHRAPNEL GRENADES.
Cause thats what hunters, who want to eat their prey do. Just blow them up, season the meat with thousands of pieces of metal and make sure that any game in the area flees immediately due to the loud commotion. Not to mention they also throw around fire grenades that set the forest ablaze for some real sustainable hunting (inb4 “ackchyually there is this random tribe that uses fire to hunt”).
There is nothing wrong with the bombs in terms of the WoW-setting, but it kinda throws a big wrench into the “its just like early-aged hunters”-argument.
I mean we have actual stats and numbers, so we dont have to rely on what just you or i see in our few keys. And according to those actual numbers, there are far less SV hunters than there are Ferals.
You could say that as well about Enhancer, Rets, Outlaw or maybe even Arcane atm. None of those specs are constantly this low in representation.
Hunter in itself isnt really good right now, but in comparison to the other hunter specs, SV is in a pretty good spot right now. It has been the best spec on a few occasions and still wasnt played. There are quite a few specs who are performing worse who have a much higher representation.
That just sounds like a cop-out and kinda the same as your option A, “Stigma”.
You have to come up with all these excusese: “They just dont play it because its not meta”, “They just dont play it because others tell them not to”, “They just dont play it because they lack the brain power to play this totally complex rotation, unlike me”. All these excuses to avoid the actual reason, that sits right in front of you:
The vast majority of hunters just doesnt want to play melee.
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I was quoting another post it just didn’t work.
You want to reply to this post.
My actual reply was under it.
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My god you are actually so insufferable dude.
Imagine being that salty about the damn spec that you actively ignore it’s good points, act as if the constant downplay and meta’s have no impact on a specs popularity, make it out as if it has no depth in gameplay - and go to excruciating lengths to try and show it off as a ‘bad spec’
Guess what, people like me enjoy it, many other hunters on the forum enjoy it, I know many people that enjoy it right now, get over it.
And for the record
Pfft. Yeah, it is more challenging to play well than BM or MM for that matter. Never said ‘unlike me’ - but ignoring the skill ceiling of the spec - something you have actively done here shows that you are another one that has no comprehensive knowledge of the gameplay or what the spec can produce when played well.
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I have two survival hunter alts for the alternate mail covenant sets. They are fun to play. I wish they baked in the legendary effects. And buff necrolord survival next patch to be the best! Explosive shot with Death Chakrams? Very fun bomb builds.
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But thats not at all what im doing. My point isnt that the spec is bad or has no depth. Even in the post that you replied to just now i said that SV is in a pretty good spot rn. Its not that it performs bad, im not ignoring the good points, im not denying the depth it may have because all this doesnt matter for my central argument: Hunters overwhelmingly dont want to play melee.
The fact that its rather good right now and still barely being played just enforces this idea.
I mean, it was mildly irritating on the first occasion that i can write a whole paragraph, but you only jump on the slight hyperbole and ignore everything else. You can boil down every spec to some simplified version since i didnt want to write down a whole guide into this post. This doesnt mean im ignoring the depth that this spec has. Hell, if you wanna get technical, you can write quite some more, even about BM if you want to talk about skill ceiling.
Im not ignoring any skill ceiling, but discussing it in this thread doesnt seem like it would lead to anyhting worthwile. If you want to put my “comprehensive knowledge” of the spec into question, you can check out my main, Aldrathor-Eredar, since i have played SV on a few reclears recenetly.
On a few bosses i even did more damage than with my main-spec MM.
Oh, 100% does meta have an impact on a specs popularity. When SV is weak it barely gets played. Now heres the kicker: Even if SV is strong, it still barely gets played. This is pretty much the only spec where this is the case. Even Feral and Enhancer had their moments in the spotlight, but SV never did.
And many more would enjoy it, if it were to be ranged again.
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Don’t touch bm’s playstyle at all, only change BM deserves is pure % numbers.
Has anyone taken chakrams/glaives as a talent, and chose necrolords? Just throwing Frisbee all over.
I have on my undead hunter. I enjoy it. Feels good in mythic plus imo. Fun aoe builds with the legendary. And next patch the legendary gives us explosive shots with death chackrams!
Some things feel clunky with SV, but that can be ironed out. Overall its fun to play. I had my hunters on bm mostly for exotic pets to use. If SV could use Exotic pets I would love that imo. BM is more boring, more about maintaining buffs/dots on different mobs. SV aoe build just focuses mostly on bombs and its fun. The new tier set would definetly help more bombs = more fun xD.