Rogues work by not being hit - dodging and parrying primarily to increase their threat and avoid incoming damage. Paladins and Warriors are meant to be a mix of mitigation methods, including blocking - parrying, dodging and sheer high armor. Paladins also are about being ‘thorn’ tanks, generating threat by being hit - triggering reflected damage and reckoning.
Druids are your classic sponge tanks - high armor, high HP.
I can’t speak to Warlock or Shaman tanks, I haven’t played either.
So other than “Mana”, how would you differentiate a SV tank from a rogue tank: Both would be dodge/parry tanks with a focus on dual wielding.
Rune of tactical engagement
Requires wyvern sting talent
Raptor strike now grants you 30% move speed for 2 seconds and causes your next arcane shot to apply wyvern sting to the target for 9 seconds, does not count toward your 1 sting limit, if the target already has wyvern sting, its duration is increased by 9 seconds.
Arcane shot now grants the hunter 30% movespeed for 2 seconds and your next raptor strike will increase the damage done by wyvern sting by 100% stacking up to 5 times for 15 seconds, refreshing duration on new stack
Then give wyvern sting dot damage some rap scaling
Making SV a weave spec that goes in and out of melee.
This gives 3 distinct play styles
Melee, ranged, and weave. Possibly 4 (and melee focused weave, and a ranged focused weave)
Tbh I’m not at all convinced that there is more difference between all other tanks than between rogues and hunters. It’s arguing about details that suit your point, I could say warrior, paladins and shams are all similar because they use block. I’m not entering this debate but you can have your opinion.
Easy, make it so the rune requires a 2 handed weapon. As an added bonus hunter tanks aren’t pumping with dual wield rune.
So a two-handed dodge tank with no active mitigation abilities beyond Deterrence?
I mean, it’s kind of a start - though it lacks even the basic things that rogue has:
Just a Flesh Wound (Crit immunity, 20% damage reduction, threat boost, a taunt)
Main Gauche (10% parry increase)
Blade Dance (10% parry increase)
Rollin with the Punches (Up to 30% more health on Dodge/Parry)
In order for SV to be a melee tank the rune would have to:
Remove the deadzone for at least Distracting Shot (so you could have a taunt)
Give more active mitigation tools beyond Deterrence (likely getting rid of feign death, as it would actively be a detriment
In the interests of balance, would also likely require in a net damage reduction of about 30-40% of all melee abilities otherwise every other tank is immediately invalidated.
And in order to make it “SV” as opposed to “Generic Hunter” - it would need to be tied to a deep SV talent, so Counterattack, Lightning Reflexes, or Wyvern Sting. Of the three, only Counterattack makes any logical sense.
rune of Wyvern Bite
Wyvern Sting now becomes Wyvern bite. Wyvern Bite swings your weapon the target causing light damage over time and taunts the enemy forcing them to attack you. While Wyvern Bite’s damage over time is active, the target is unable critically strike the Hunter.
Requires 2 handed weapon. Melee Range.
Because a boss mechanic targets the OT periodically? Because the taunt was resisted, costing you the immunity until it comes off CD? Because if you have aggro, why would you keep spamming your taunt, meaning you cannot recover the boss when you lose aggro until it’s spun around and smacked the over-eager DPS.
It’s still higher damage than any other tank, regardless.
The sad part about this is blizzard is going to get a handful of replies of “make it a tank spec” and they will do a rush job of it with lvl 60 runes that makes it horrible “but tank”
I think adding something like a secondary effect like a flat damage reduction for X seconds or a leech to mongoose bite would be cool and make the ability relevant.
I don’t think it’s needed, going SV and missing on dual wield is a huge DPS loss.
You would naturally take SV for the defensive talents anyway, up to lightning reflexes at least, and spend the rest in BM for improved monkey.
I don’t think the rune would be any more convoluted than the rogue or lock ones really. It doesn’t even have to add a new ability, just slightly adapting 2 existing ones.
That would also be a buff straight to melee hunter, not just tank hunter. Especially if there isn’t any other rune that competes.
I haven’t checked the stats, but unless 2handed melee hunter is doing the same or less than a tank rogue, it’s too much. And I think rogue tanks already are too high as it is.
Defensive talents end at 11-16 points into SV. Deflection (5pts), Deterrence (1pt), and arguably Survivalist (5pts). Nothing else affects your ability to not be hit, or withstand a hit in a relevant fashion. (Slows and immobilizations are worthless in PvE against bosses).
So technically, with a rune that gives you all the threat, needs only 11pts into the spec to get all the relevant abilities, you can then go deep into BM for 31pts and gain Spirit Bond for 2% passive regen every 10s. At which point, you’re not survival - you’re just Beast Master with some SV points.
Thats all it needs. Enhance shamans would still be dual wield tanking if they didn’t make your rune not usable dualwielding. You just need dodge and parry. Kings buff, survival of the fittest already have survival hunters insane healthpools…… now imagine crit immunity and more hp.
If they hold threat, and had aspect of the infinite mana, trap launcher, a pet that can off tank stacks.
It might be the best tank in the entire game with the highest damage.
Downside is if it’s too good, then it does even more damage than what Munter has done to hunters throughout P2 - obliterate the need for any other spec.
There needs to be some semblance of balance if you want a healthy game.
All they had to do was make Lone Wolf the tank stance
Said that in phase 1.
Saying it still in phase 3.
They can still do it.
Add to Lone Wolf 6% crit taken reduction, make disengage or distracting shot a taunt, increase threat generated by whatever percent and change Serpent Spread rune to “All weapons are hunter weapons” rune that allows a hunter to wear a shield and gain 20% more armor while wearing said shield.
You can only use mongoose bite after you dodge an attack. It’s currently useless and melee hunters would certainly not give up on dual wield for this. I think a tank rune is the perfect design space for an attack you don’t even buy at the class master.
I didn’t either but survival is quite a big dps loss over BM and going 2 handed is another huge dps loss. If needed they can tune it later but I don’t think the dps would be far from tanks.
Lightning reflexes increases agility which is both armor and dodge. It’s not huge but it’s still much better than spirit bond which is a filler talent (it’s really undertuned).
You would 100% go deep SV to tank. Meanwhile for ranged or melee dps there is no point going deep SV.
Deep SV (theoretically a tank) at 60 would spec 20/0/30 + 1 and grab all the defensive talents for their pet in BM along with imp monkey, then all the defensive talents in Surv. If they ever fix surv itll be with changing wyvern sting. thats where +1 comes from.
The 15% agi will be 1% dodge and like 40 armor from Lightning Reflexes. Compared to 31/0/16+4, you’d literally sacrifice nothing defensive for far more actual damage.
If they do tie it to wyvern sting (which i agree is probably best), then sure it might be viable without breaking balance too much.
Still saddens me that SV will once again be forced into the melee role - but that’s a me problem.