SURVIVAL: Enough Complaining, Let's Talks Solutions

Classes Hunter
204

One subjective anecdotal drop in a sea:

  • I feel I’d enjoy it, but not likely any more than the themes involved in the SV we have now, if it were just better polished.
  • For whatever reason, though, I feel like that theme, once adding traps and DoTs, would better fit something less spammy, like the aesthetic of D3’s Demon Hunter but if they actually needed to reload (via, idk, leg-loaders) between shots.
  • In either case, I’m curious, how do you imagine this differentiating itself from Outlaw, especially?
205

Outlaw was a bad example

Most the rogues want the pirate junk removed

We are masters of stealth and the first thing we do when we leave steal is shoot a pistol?
Give me a break

206

alot of survival is pretty good. but the theme can be ironed out. making us be able to mid range for alot of a fight and still maintain dps is a cool feature but i feel we need to rely more on traps and carry unique utility so that we can iron out the whole tribal melee hunters. it needs to feel like rambo with a pet more utility more traps (that are part of the dps and not just slows or stuns) it would add that extra omf we needed.

then again we are in a good spot now. middle of the pack dps with a fun rotation.

1 Like
207

Admittedly, if I had somehow managed to cloister myself away from all mention of Outlaw previously except for havingbeen told that it’s a hybrid spec where one’s spam-skill procs freecasts of a ranged-capable skill, I’d have more likely expected that proc skill to be brutal but relatively quiet double-stab to the gut from melee range that becomes a quick two dagger-throws from range.

That said, if Outlaw ever lost its pirate theme, I’d still want Dreadblades’ CP-capping functionality in some shape or form.

208

Survival needs new visuals. Gameplay itself is fine.

209

This line is easy to spit out simply because you disagree with the counterpart and what’s being argued.

As for your basis of my posts in this topic, the only thing I’ve done is reply to your posts and what you’ve written yourself.
That’s not “off-topic” in the slightest.

You might not like that I remain critical towards your suggestions and thoughts on a more utility/cc-oriented approach to SV’s design. But there’s a clear reason for that, and it has nothing to do with the fact that I miss RSV. Nothing at all.

As for the rest, you claim as childish, it’s mostly focusing on counter-arguments to what you’ve claimed SV to be/been changed into in the past. Again, not childish, just focusing on facts.

4 Likes
210

Talking with someone in another thread. I am a ranged survival advocate, don’t let this annoy you. I think i have a solution to both sides; ranged vs melee. Devs need to make Survival more self-sufficient, and less pet focused. Please look at the layout design analyze and critique.

My suggestion:
Continue use of 2-Hander as main weapon.
Replace Kill Command with Explosive Shot (see below)
Replace Coordinated Assault with Black Arrow (see below)
Rework Alpha Predator (kill command talent)
Rework Tip of the Spear (kill command talent)
Rework Birds of Prey to Scent of Blood ([Name in Work])
Rework Wildfire Infusion (kill command talent)

Explosive Shot: [1 charge] You fire and explosive charge into the enemy target, dealing X Fire damage. The charge will blast the target every second for an additional 2 sec. (Has a 25% Chance to immediately reset its cooldown). Generates 15 Focus.

  • Current Marksmanship Explosive Shot Talent: Fires and Explosive Shot at your target. After 3 sec., the shot will Explode, dealing (188.5% of Attack Power) Fire Damage to up to 6 enemies with 8 yards.
    However, the original from WotLK listed above would work better for my suggestion. Though if implemented in the current fashion, if the “After 3 sec., the shot will explode, dealing (188.5% of Attack Power)” were treated as a Damage Over Time effect and the Mastery changed as listed above/below by Xidane, then the spell would work efficiently. However, again, there would need to be multiple or stacking applications allowed for the spell to allow this rework.

Black Arrow: Fires a Black Arrow at the target, increasing damage done to the target by 20% and dealing X shadow damage over 20 sec. While Black Arrow is active, Explosive Shot’s chance to reset is increased by 25%.

  • this is functionally the same as Coordinated Assault but unreliant on the pet. it also gives the lock and load proc. The damage over time effect is a number mechanic and numbers are easily tuned; thus it is important to note there does not need to be a distinct or significant amount of damage coming from this spell.

Alpha Predator: Explosive Shot now has 2 charges, and does 30% increased damage.

Butchery Talent: Carve now causes your pet to thrash up to 5 nearby enemies, dealing X Bleed damage and an additional X Bleed damage over 15 sec.

Blood Seeker Talent: Raptor Strike (Mongoose Bite) causes your pet to Rake the target, dealing X Bleed damage and an additional X Bleed damage over 15 sec. You and your pet gain 2% attack speed for every bleeding enemy with 12 yards.

  • was 10% base but with the other application options of bleeds 10% per bleeding target = 50% and that would be nerfed quickly.

Tip of the Spear: Explosive Shot increases the damage of your next Raptor Strike by 25%, stacking up to 3 times.

Scent of Blood: Attacking the bleeding/DOT’d target with Raptor/Mongoose or Carve extends the Duration of Black Arrow by 1.5 sec.

  • literally a direct replacement for Birds of Prey vs Coordinated Assault.

Kill Command becoming Explosive Shot, and Butchery becoming a Bleed talent would indirectly cause a rework of the talent Wildfire Infusion.

  • Original: Shrapnel Bomb: Shrapnel pierces the target causing Raptor Strike and Carve to apply a bleed for 9 sec that stacks up to 3 times

  • Rework: Shrapnel Bomb: deals x damage to currently bleeding targets.

  • Original: Pheromone Bomb: Kill Command has a 100% chance to reset against targets coated with Pheromones.

  • Rework: Incendiary Bomb: Explosive Shot cause the target and 4 nearby enemies to Catch Flame and burn for X fire damage over 9 seconds. Explosive Shot extends Catch Flame by 4 sec.

  • Original: Volatile Bomb: Reacts violently with poison, causing an extra explosion against enemies suffering from your Serpent Sting and refreshes your Serpent Stings.

  • Rework: Volatile Bomb: Reacts violently with poison, causing an extra explosion against enemies suffering from your Serpent Sting dealing x nature damage, refreshing your Serpent Stings, and spreads Serpent Sting to 4 nearby enemies. (it’s worth noting that the poison spread by the Volatile Bomb would not cause initial damage to the 4 effected enemies, but subsequent Volatile bombs would.)

Reworking Volatile Bomb is difficult, without causing either initial damage or spreading the poison, it is lack luster. Though if you were to take the Hydra’s Bite talent that fire 2 Serpent Stings, then it would be less of a draw back and perhaps that is the main premise of the bomb/talent.

then if needed:

211

I like this idea, throw in the option to duel wield and a glyph that changes our crossbow to a small bow and this would be awesome

212

Alot of people are asking for this, but the option would be purely cosmetic. It doesn’t seem like they want to go Guild Wars route, where equipping different weapons give different variations of gameplay. Yes, warriors got dual wield back, but its showing to be a Less Than 1% Difference in DPS. With Hunters, we never had a mechanic like Titan’s Grip that awarded different benefits depending on 2hander vs 1handers equipped.

Allowing Hunters to dual wield would actually be a short/long term Negative; Gearing would be ALOT more difficult. Look at warriors once more, with Loot Spec as Fury both 2Handers and 1Handers have a chance to drop. It would suck if you run a dungeon(s) over and over just to have one 1hander drop but two 2handers drop; you would still be getting the gear, likely good gear or better, but you are gimping yourself because you want the aesthetic of dual wielding.

A much better fix would just be to allow Transmogging your 2Hander into a Dual Wield appearance… an open slot transmog?

I understand in an MMO that vanity and aesthetics mean alot to the player base, but let’s get the spec we want first without adding the small mole hills in the way.

Its like when you are doing the dishes, you see the sink full but you clean them nonetheless. You get done with everything in the sink, put the sponge down and reach to shut off the water, then someone adds more dirty dishes. Is it that big of a deal, no, but now you feel like you gotta do Alot more work than at the start.

213

I apologize, I am continually looking at my suggestion and finding things that i have missed or may be over/under powered and edit the post. I like my suggestion as a whole and think it easy to enact. My hope is, if I do all the work, and all the community agrees/compromises on such a solution, then implantation would be much easier for the Devs and require primarily number tuning.

214

Your ideas aren’t too dissimilar to mine. Like replacing Kill Command as the generator and the DoT spreading of Wildfire Infusion, though slightly different. I do not mind bringing back Explosive Shot to SV but I question Black Arrow. It doesn’t really fit the theme. Could there be a different element you could think of? Maybe a frost DoT with a decaying slow? It would help catch enemies while Harpoon is down or with CCing adds for a short time. And don’t worry about numbers yet. We’re just trying to pin down a design philosophy.

215

The problem with something like that is it effects pvp to heavily. The idea is for Black Arrow to replace Coordinated Assault. The fact of having a DoT effect may even effect PvP (rogues) to heavily. I dont pvp much though, to have considered this in hindsight. The answer to your question though, is yes. The spell could be Incendiary Arrow using Fire Damage DoT, or Tracer Dart. Regardless of name the Main Goal is to no-longer have the pet be a factory of the spell.

Flavor text:
Incendiary Arrow sets fire to the target inciting your focus on them as they burn.
Tracer Dart hones your focus on the target.

Further thought involving PvP, the debuff being applied to the target in conjunction with improving our focus regen by resetting cooldowns, the spell actually gimps the hunter. Debuffs can dispelled or otherwise.

There are many other spells and abilities we can use during this time, though your thought is likely that these other spells are on cooldown. Coordinated Assault dose not have a factor of CC.

216

PvP is the reason I had the slow decay over time so as not to be too strong but I see your point. Though I’d think dispelling the slow wouldn’t dispel the DoT, would it? As for DoTs affecting Rogues, that’s what Hunter’s Mark is for now. So I don’t think that would be too much of an issue. But also like you I don’t PvP much so I don’t know the ins and outs of balance there.

1 Like
217

The biggest issues with survival pvp are simply pets being way to squishy now and hard to revive

And the one that annoys me is frost trap getting tripped by random minion summons

218

Pet is made void by the changes i have made. No longer needing Kill Command or Coordinated Assault, with Ranged Replacements. Using Aspect of the Eagle will be the functioning cooldown that you now rely on. for those scenarios.

Well not void, I mean the thrash and rake worked into the talents using the pet, i wouldnt call that void. but you likely wont be taking an aoe improvement for PvP.

219

Those changes aren’t happening any time soon so I guess their even more void than the pets in your idea

220

they have a day… they can totally implement then number tune for day 1 or week 2. but MOST likely, you are right, nothing will change and the Devs are more focused on external play power than making a class/spec good on its own; especially this week before release

221

It doesn’t feel too bad on the beta once you get legendaries and enough haste; I don’t think I had enough haste on the beta though

Was sitting at around 15% but it starts coming together at around 20%

222

once you get to the end game, get these legendary pieces of gear, get your BiS covenant and the potency conduits that increase damage and decrease cooldowns, and enough renown to get that last skill. Yeah man it feels great then.

I get that retail isnt classic, but when it comes down to a class/spec relying on so many external factors to feel good… thats bad. Legendaries aren’t legendary, they will be common. Covenants will be tuned and re-tuned. The fact that hunters have 2 to choose from for BiS is very nice, but will likely change with patches to come.

I thought this unpruning business and getting back to the roots kinda attitude was gonna bring classes and specs to a place were they felt GREAT to play at max level and the gear made it all the more flashy and better.

I’m sad. It’s to late now for Shadowlands to be saved in that manor, not to say it will be bad at all. But i fear a 9.3 scenario where the game get good and i have already given up on it once more.

223

I’m down for it being just transmog.