Sub rogue top spec Nyalotha?

Kind of strange that Sub has shot up to the top rogue spec in mythic and competitive with our two other specs for heroic tier raiding. Obviously, the spec received no changes does anyone know what is suddenly making it viable?

warcraftlogs .com/zone/statistics/24 - Mythic
warcraftlogs .com/zone/statistics/24#difficulty=4 - Heroic

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I would say its due to the amount of AoE content in this raid. There’s tons of it. There are also times when on demand burst is desired to focus down adds.

I can see where Subtlety would be viable.

Does anyone have insight into this? Looking to eventually bring my sub rogue into this raid tier.

Yeah but Subtlety have no aoe…Outlaw would be more ideal in this case for aoe.


To OP: What kind of data are you looking at, exactly?

In that case Outlaw and Assassination would still severely outperform Subtlety.

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Sub is built around doing priority damage. If there are adds that can be abused sub can dumpster bosses with constant finishers.

It’s also been traditionally gear dependent so we might be hitting that part of the curve where sub overtakes the specs.

I added the links to my main post that show percentiles in heroic and mythic from warcraft logs,


My guess is that these mythic geared rogues are figuring out the right corruption combos with high ilvl gear.

I’m just surprised assassination and outlaw have fallen so hard. Assassination especially…

I thought the same so I checked parses but you can see its even performing very close to assassination and outlaw in the heroic raid as well.

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Well that’s exciting. I remember in another thread people were saying how few parses there were for sub rogues and that it was trash tier.

Then I checked some random twitch steam of a sub rogue doing a heroic raid and he was topping the meters. Needless to say I was confused.

Information is not spreading out just yet I guess.

I almost want to just ignore logs and damage parses. Soooo many specs keep going from the bottom to the top and vice versa because really it just depends on who has corruption gear and who doesn’t. It’s almost impossible to tell which spec does the best raw damage right now.


I don’t think outlaw fallen behind, if anything it’s pulling ahead, especially with corruption and holding broadside with Deadshot traits will be pulling ahead.

Sub is just clunky and an example of failure design to begin with.


Nobody is claiming it is. Were not talking about outlaw in this thread if you want to parrot it’s strong points there are other threads for it.

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Well at the very least this may prove that all specs are viable with the right set up.

Subtlety is very smooth with the right essences and stats. Just takes some good pooling and cool down management.

Can we track a sub rogue parsing high?

Plenty of them parsing high you can sort warcraftlogs by player and just select rogue> sub

How much of their damage is from corruption, though?

There’s only like 10 parses so this is all being blown way out of proportion. What you are looking at is averages and its impossible to get an accurate representation between 10 parses in one spec and compare it to 3k in another. If you actually look at their dps numbers and compare the top end of both specs assassination is way higher on every single fight. If you are actually allowed in as a sub rogue to a mythic raid you are probably not an average representation of a person playing that spec, you probably have demonstrated a proficiency to pulling it off and are an outlier statistic.


Thanks for the clarification. It’s too bad Subtlety couldn’t pull ahead this tier with it’s scaling. Let’s just hope the spec isn’t super OP at that beginning of next expansion so it doesn’t get nuked from orbit like it did during Uldir.

It’s just too bad that more people won’t be able to try out this iteration of the spec. It’s a lot more fun and engaging with the right traits and essences than it was at the beginning of the expansion. Unfortunately the numbers aren’t quite there.

If I had one criticism it’s that there should be more to do outside of shadow dance charges. I’m hoping hemorrhage and rupture return so we can make use of sanguinary veins like before.

Here’s hoping things are better in shadowlands.


Keep your garbage out of this thread Shoes you’ve beaten the dead horse into literal glue.


I happen to like the subtlety class design and wish the numbers were tuned up to make it playable. 90% of players ideas to “fix” sub are to port cool things to it from the other specs. This would dilute what makes sub cool.