Streamers are detrimental to WoW

Community General Discussion
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You think i’m some old fart, or share the same sentiment as older people (Wah streamers bad wah?) no. I watch streamers a couple times a week, but I think they aren’t helping.

I’m not talking about the FF14 bandwagon migration that was started, i’m talking about their critiscm. Most WoW youtubers/streamers that are popular are embroiled in hardcore content. I.E cutting edge raiding, high end PVP. The critiscm they spout usually is directed towards gearing systems, raiding content.

The fact is, WoW has some of the best endgame PVE systems of any MMO. Calling me out for my bull? I have played FF14, i’ve done savage and ultimate (Equivalent of mythic). The fights are much more boring. They’re longer, but there are less people. More responsibility, but more lonely.

WoW has boss design, class combat, and raiding down to a T. The biggest issue is the motivation. People have no need or want to do anything else other than PVP/PVE. This is where WoW fails the most. The content inbetween the lines.

Please stop focusing on your classes. Almost all the classes feel great to play. Stop focusing on your raiding bosses and gear. Yes people are crying about how bad sockets are and conduits etc but they do not understand why. It’s not because of DPS numbers, it’s because they feel NOTHING when they get them, when they use them. Create content like player housing, something players can work towards that isn’t gear and endgame system. Work on professions. Things that give the game life. Farming, like in MoP, something. These systems will give life to the game. Not daily meaningless drivel, but daily MEANGINGFUL drivel, where players want to work towards it.

Stop listening to the streamers. They are reflecting the voice of the minority of players. If you think gearing/conduits is killing WoW, you are a brainwashed fool. It’s a content drought. We have enough M+, it feels great. We have enough raiding systems, feels great. Add something BETWEEN the lines. World quests to get anima to upgrade sanctum? Not enough. We need more life, more something that isn’t in oribos, or the same zone, something cross-continent you can upgrade towards. Spanning questlines like in legion. Garrisons, but without the lonlieness and repetitive tables. This is what you need.

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You need cheerleaders for the eSports…

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No they aren’t. Blaming streamers for showcasing a bad product is barking up the wrong tree. There isn’t a mass exodus from Twitch right now. Blizzard is detrimental to WoW. People are catching on.

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I agree, but would also add “General Discussion Forum is Detrimental to WoW”.

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Streamers who talk about why listening to RWF and MDI top players are closer to regular players than Ion is when he sits down and does an interview with Preach.

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I agree and think it’s more of a blight than streamers.

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If they were “reflecting the voice of the minority of players,” then a minority of players would consume their content, and they would quickly fail out of the streaming system and have to get a normal job. They succeed by resonating with the community. Sometimes that’s an uncomfortable truth to face. I hated having to come to terms that so many players that I was sharing WoW with were completely on board with the antics of Sodapoppin circa 2012 (nothing against him now, but I’ve seen him admit he was thoroughly annoying as a kid), but to do otherwise is to live in denial. Most streamers aren’t streaming M+, and the ones who are have a viewer spike during the MDI/world first races and then they drop off to almost zero views.

We have too much, IMO. It really doesn’t feel great.

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

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Prominent players, whether they’re streamers or vocal members of WF (or WF contender) guilds like Limit, Echo, etc, rarely criticise the content itself.

They might criticize certain fights, like SLG or KT this tier for bugginess or just design in general but the prevailing attitude towards the actual content itself is overwhelmingly positive.

They just hate the hoops that they have to jump through that makes enjoying that content significantly more obnoxious.

Domination Sockets =/= The Raid.

The Raid is solid and for the most part (outside P2 Sylvanas at least), incredibly fun.

Domination Sockets are an absolutely garbage system in practice and in implementation that should have never made it to the light of day after Corruptions were a thing.

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To be fair there are so many who aren’t into clickbait. So many with great info. One that hit my notifications recently came from Metro, not a great fan of his on the forums, but his pathing video for this patch was great. Others have helped me gain some secret mounts.

I like the ones that actually show something that can help. Not the ones who share their opinions, which generally follow whatever is the rage bait of the day.

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I understand many of you disagree, but have you tuned into a streamer? Like actually tuned in to the chat? Have you seen the mindless, sheep-like mentality that is chat?

People don’t follow them/listen to them/donate to them because they have a point, they do it because they are sucked into a little microcosm of an echo chamber where they agree with the famous person for no other reason than a mindless glorification. I tuned into an asmongold stream, their opinion is asmons. Not their own. It’s filthy to see and I swear i’m not insulting streamers. People feel comfort listening to them, they relate, ish. But for them to be the biggest dictators of blizzards direction is really irresponsible! What if their opinion doesn’t reflect the majority, which I promise you it doesn’t, but since it’s the loudest voice that’s the type of content that is put forward? Aren’t you pissed off by that?

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I don’t watch the streams. Who has time to sit around and listen to a 2-3 hour session of gameplay? I watch the clips when they chop them up. The entire idea of stream chat has always eluded me but I think it’s the Millenial and Z’s equivalent to what talk radio is for Boomers.

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To say that blizzard DOESN’T listen to feedback is intellectual dishonesty. They listen to the wrong feedback, to the poles of opinions. Their issue is, they rubberband. One expansion they hear that RNG legendaries are bad, they rubberband to the opposite, removing it for an expansion. They hear that legendaries are good, they rubberband to having them in shadowlands, fixing the RNG, but making it too grindy. Their issue is they are listening to the wrong feedback, they are skipping the MIDDLE. And being honest, that middle section is NEVER streamers. Why? Because the middle isn’t flamboyant, it’s neutral, it’s literally a money sink. You can’t tell me that extremism from both sides doesn’t sell. It does. It gets the views.

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No and I think you’re weird for believing it’s a herd and sheep and like some little sub ecosystem and that these people are mindless drones instead of agreeing with him for the sake of something being just bad. You tuned in and have your own opinions and don’t agree with him so you are not swayed by this spell he’s cast over his chat ( lol ) yet everybody else there is?

bad product is bad. if it takes a streamer to say it outloud and 90,000 other people say TRUE it doesnt mean the streamer is to blame for making them think that way. Come on Hordoj.

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Enhancement shaman here completely disagreeing with your assertion that they need to stop iterating on classes.

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The problem with streamers is they lack integrity. They make money off of views so they say and do what’s popular and not what is real. A good example of this is how Asmongoof keeps ranting about wow toxicity. The internet as a general rule is pretty toxic. Wow is not any less ore more toxic than YouTube or ff14 but because he’ll lose views if he says that he distorts the truth and follows with the mass projection.

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I think you are completely wrong. When 90,000 people shout TRUEE to something he says, I wholeheartedly doubt they actually considered what he’s talking about, and how it should be implemented. If someone other than a popular person said it, they wouldn’t say true at all. They wouldn’t be a voice. Which means, their opinion on the matter is not strong enough, which means that it only exists because “famous streamer, me like attention.”

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I am a old fart & I stream, I am retired so I don’t rely on my stream for a living, but it is fun to do, a neat hobby. I Don’t knock World of Warcraft itself, its not the games fault it’s being ran into the ground and destroyed from within, but I do point out to those that listen, who the people are that causes of the current bad state of the game. Most content creators and streamers need their streams to make money so they will do what they need to do for the viewership though. Just my thoughts on the matter

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And we all know what catering to mass projection leads too. World war 2 and the Salem witch trials are two examples.

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I also main enhancement shaman, and yes I don’t think that class design is what is killing WoW. Enhancement feels better than it has in a while, and anyone who leaves a game simply because their DPS is lower than unholy isn’t in the middle, they are the same monotonous rubberbanding extremism that streamers are, and are the minority of players.

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It feels okay, but it definitely still needs work. Two charges of Stormstrike and Lava Lash would be a start.