Stormheim: Genn might have saved Azeroth

A contentious topic for the Horde in particular, it’s often used as justification for the genocidal war perpetuated by Sylvanas in BfA and seeming violation of the truce, but it might just have saved Azeroth in the long term although how might not be readily apparent.

So why did Genn go to Stormheim to begin with? Because according to SI:7, Sylvanas herself had taken a significant portion of the Forsaken military there in search of something and was acting particularly secretive about it. And regardless of who gave him that information or the intent behind it, it was actually correct: she WAS up to no good.

Let’s be clear. Sylvanas did not go to Stormheim to enslave Eyir in order to benefit the Horde, she did so in order to gain functional immortality and nigh unlimited power for herself. And while such power might have benefited the Horde in the short term and sped up the Legion’s defeat, it would have caused even more catastrophic consequences had Genn not stopped it from happening.

With unlimited Val’kyr and the ability to mass resurrect potent undead, Sylvanas would no longer require the Horde whatsoever as she would now possess a power even greater than the Scourge at its height. Not even the Lich King himself had access to such power, being forced to individually create Val’kyr on a case by case basis and never in such numbers. Let me repeat that: not even the Lich King had this power at his command.

Did the Horde playerbase not find it odd that her first act as Warchief was to find a means to make them completely unnecessary to her continued existence and that of her people? And if she actually gained that power, do you truly believe she would have been content to remain answerable to the Horde leadership?

And worse, even the Lich King largely restrained the Scourge from wreaking havoc across Azeroth because a sliver of goodness remained inside him. But Sylvanas? She has no such goodness or restraint. Had she succeeded, I have no doubt whatsoever that she would have immediately turned such power onto the Alliance to ensure no threats remained to her existence as soon as the Legion was eliminated.

Some of the Horde might be convinced to go along with it at least initially. But after seeing Sylvanas go through with her threats like raising all of SW as her slaves, even self absorbed Horde leaders like Gallywix would quickly realize the danger to their own existence she represents were they to step out of line and would be forced to band together with the remainder of the Alliance to combat her, and even then the chances of victory would be slim.

With uncountable undead at her command and unlimited Val’kyr to raise every fallen corpse as well as create ever more potent forms of undeath, there might have been no stopping her and Azeroth itself may very well have been turned into a barren wasteland populated only by shambling corpses bound to her will.

Now Horde players might just call this propaganda and paranoia, but really ask yourselves: does Sylvanas truly consider the Horde her family, or a necessary evil to keep her people and herself safe from the myriad of foes that she knows would destroy her without their protection?

You may hate Genn, but he may have very well saved you as well as everyone else.

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I’m sorry for what’s about to happen.

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I feel like you’re inadvertently saying that it’s Genn’s fault that the horde in general have become the villains of this expansion, instead of just Sylvanas if she had gained her own army and separated from the horde to do things on her own.

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The reason Before the Storm gives us in the narration and her thoughts were that she was doing it to save the Forsaken.

And Val’kyr under Odyn are made one at a time as well. We witness this ritual in the Halls of Valor. So no, I don’t see this as anywhere more significant than the Lich King.

She wants the Forsaken to keep on living. That has been clear since Black Mirror, at least.

Hard to say. I mean, she was already warchief. She already isn’t answerable to them.

I think the chances would be high. Given all neutral organizations such as the Argent Crusade/Silver Hand, Cenarion Circle, Earthen Ring, and Scourge would probably help too.

I think she’s well aware that the Horde teaming up with the Alliance to kill a leader is not only possible, but has happened before. And the last Lich King had numerous nations of undead and still lost.

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You know we could’ve destroyed that lovely lantern at anytime right? Not in the middle of a intergalactic-level total war.

Besides that pseudo apocalyptic argument doesn’t hold much water in a setting where your average group of heroes can fight off titan gods.

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The latter. She acknowledges that she doesn’t want the leadership, but she still leads. Does she have her own agenda? Duh. The two things aren’t mutually exclusive.

Bad thread, bad premise. Genn broke the peace, yiff yiff.

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So Eyir is now more powerful than the Lich King in his prime? I doubt it.

I don’t think it was a “case by case” basis either. The Lich King has a town in Northrend- forgot what it was called, but it’s like Skold-ashil. He had his own version of the Valkyra- and there were tons of Val’kyr mobs in Northrend.

(Edit: the place was called Valkyrion)

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Yeah … considering how paranoid she was about the Alliance coming to attack the Horde (someday, eventually, it was only a matter of time, etc…) no way in hell Sylvie would have left the Horde alone if she had gotten Eyir. There was honestly few things as dangerous as Sylvanas getting that damned Titan Watcher; assuming of course her actually getting Eyir hadn’t just screwed the world over when it comes to Odyn’s participation with the Legion.

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I hear this a lot, but the problem is the Forsaken method of ‘saving themselves’ is also the same reason they constantly find themselves surrounded by foes who want to see them annihilated.

See, in order to grow stronger the Forsaken have to constantly war with others to raise fresh Forsaken from corpses. Yes, they’ve used graveyards, but we all know that’s a very finite resource and not sustainable. More often than not, it is through killing that they grow in number.

And Sylvanas has only encouraged this attitude and thrust them into a genocidal war with a notable emphasis on raising corpses. which has only further enraged the Alliance and further justified their perception that the Forsaken are nothing more than sadist undead monsters worthy only of total extermination.

If you’re truly trying to preserve something, you don’t repeatedly risk it by doing everything humanly possible to make everyone hate you. Heck, by burning Teldrassil she almost guaranteed that Undercity would be the first target of a massive retaliatory attack. Does that really sound like the actions of someone who cares about her people?

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Sure.

And if they had the Val’kyr, they would not crumble away as they are now. That’s the problem she was seeking to fix.

To an extent, sure.

There are various ways to preserve something. I don’t agree with Sylvanas’ methods or goals, but I was explaining what those goals actually were. As opposed to just ‘seeking power and personal immortality.’

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I only wanted to touch on this part.

The vast majority of the Forsaken forces sent to Stormheim were not there to capture Eyir. They were there to aid the PC in finding and securing the Aegis.

Only a single ship, The Oblivion, was set aside to help Sylvanas lay siege to Eyir’s temple.

So out of that “significant portion of the Forsaken Military”, only one ship was there to support her secret agenda. The rest were there to help stop the Legion.

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Oh yeah, Genn did save Azeroth in Stormheim… Sylvanas would have brought all of Azeroth to heel with the enslaved Eir and the Valk’yre. She would have waged war with Odyn at a very pivotal time. Even if we managed to still defeat the Legion, the war against Sylvanas with limitless undead would be a war we would never recover from. It would be Ner’zhul’s dream realized.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but Val’kyr are slaves by their very construction. They are deliberately created to serve, so her turning Forsaken into them would effectively put an end to the whole Forsaken “Free Will” debate (also, spoilers, Sylvie’s never been bound by that rule herself). If you’re suggesting that she start making more Nathanos style Forsaken, that takes 2 Deaths to create 1 undead of Nathanos’ calibur. You have to sacrifice the body and soul of a living person and fuse them into the Undead to give them that upgrade (but yes, that would deal with the rotting away issue).

So … not sure “Saving” is the best way to describe what Sylvie was doing there. She’d certainly achieve her objective of being as close to immortal as she can get, but I definitely think the Eyir situation is just another example of Sylvanas conflating what’s good for her & what’s good for the Forsaken people.

I don’t think Odyn’s currenty Val’kyr are enslaved. As for the free will debate, it would just settle where it is now. People saying they aren’t Forsaken. Not that I agree, mind you. Just that it wouldn’t change anything more than it has for Derek.

She doesn’t make it clear the precise means she was going to undertake.

Because the current Val’kyr lack the Lich King’s power. It seems possible Odyn’s might be up to task without that.

It seems undefined how she intended to “save” the Forsaken with the Val’kyr, outside of just expanding their numbers exponentially (which, since they’re her “Bulwark Against the Infinite” that’s their purpose, and what she would do). She would however certainly accomplish her goal of immortality, since she could create as many Val’kyr as she needed to constantly revive herself.

As such, she’d be an existential threat to all life on Azeroth with that sort of power. She’s paranoid, resentful, and would perceive both the Alliance and Horde as potential threats to her (because they would inevitably fear her if she had Eyir, and started spreading the Forsaken in more aggressive ways than she did in even Cata). She’d destroy them both in a heartbeat (or at least try) to bring “peace” to the “New World Order” of a “Forsaken World”.

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To me, the impression I got was that the Odyn Val’kyr can make the current ones stop rotting. That’s the feel Dark Mirror and Before the Storm gave. But it is unclear, yes.

I mean, it’d just be a case of convincing her it is in her/their own best interest not to. I think that would still be the case if she had the Val’kyr.

But Sylvanas literally has an issue where she is INCAPABLE of trusting those she doesn’t have total authority over. This is the reason she’s been so intent on killing Vareesa and raising her as a Dark Ranger. If Sylvie was a sane person, she could have had a productive relationship with her younger sister ages ago (proving the “They will never accept us” myth isn’t so concrete as she tries to portray it). However, no matter how much she loves her sister … she cannot fully trust her until she has dominion over her (which is why she was so secretly gung-ho about killing and raising her).

Sylvanas is a paranoid control freak with strong narcissistic tendencies. There is no way in hell she was EVER going to trust the Horde and Alliance as long as they had even a hint of enough power to challenge her “New World Order”. Just like now how the “potential of the Alliance attacking the Horde” was enough to convince her to war (though I’m certain she has her own objectives); the “potential of the Alliance and Horde being a threat” would push her to eradicate them (and with Eyir, she’d certainly have the means to do so).

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It isn’t about trust. It is about convincing her of repercussions, that it is in her best interest not to act. The issue so far has just been that Saurfang (and now the Horde at large) hasn’t taken issue with her actions. Which, all things considered, can as much be placed on that being the story the writers want to tell rather than being true to their characters.

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I think it is time we broadened the Human Paladin category to include all Alliance Paladin posts because the posts are remaining the same but we are seeing more racial diversity.

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Counterpoint: Genn got Teldrassil nuked

One of Sylv’s primary arguments for wiping out the Night Elves was that the Alliance couldn’t be trusted. She cited Genn’s attempted assassination of the Warchief during peacetime going unpunished. Saurfang agreed.

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