Alright. I interpret it differently I guess. Complex human interactions are complex to interpret.
You don’t support the discrimination against, “Wrath babies” but don’t see the fact it did happen - and seems like it might happen again - as something that directly contradicts the, “community” argument?
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There is discrimination in pretty much any human community. It is sad, but it is the reality of human interactions. We’re not gonna change the world in a video game.
Then why are we suddenly interested in changing an established product to try and preserve that community, especially one that is already well known to be toxic and exclusionary?
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Because it opens the door for them to rebalance WotLK to how they see fit.
It is and I’m not pleased about either, but we get what we get. Taking more on the chin isn’t a solution though.
Speaking to these achievements, well, they were in the game. Is it exploitable? Yes, but that’s Wrath. I’m a no-changes person. I’m not pleased with any drastic changes and I’ve tolerated them up to a point, but once balance is starting to be mucked with you’re going to open a box you cannot close. 12 item levels is a lot when the stat losses are spread throughout your gear. Classes that scaled well, for a simplistic way of putting it, will be less powerful than classes with high base values. Does this warrant a balance change to compensate for the damage that would’ve otherwise been avoided to said affected classes? A nerf to those who benefited?
Above all we should not want balance changes. I do not. I am indeed already displeased that the talents are on a 3.3.5 spreadsheet. I very much do miss my old Death Knight abilities such as Shadow of Death and old Unholy Blight. Yes, the class was broken but the point of this WotLK Classic is to stop looking at things like an engineer and have fun with the original version of the game.
Enough min-maxing. Play the game how it was. (This, yes, also means RDF in the ICC patch (not the start) and no dual spec until later). I understand Blizzard has already changed these things. We do not want more changes.
Ulduar was a great raid. Arthas was the best WoW villain we had, but just as no king rules forever no raid does either. Ulduar was released earlier than ToC and thus had less quality gear. That’s how Wrath was. Enjoy your time in Ulduar while it lasts.
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With all the changes they’re making I don’t even feel like playing this version either anymore.
It’s funny and a bit sad because the formula for success is right there in front of them, but the Dev team is deviating from it because… because they can?
“Q. What is WoW® Classic?
A. World of Warcraft Classic is a faithful recreation of the original WoW experience, as it was in 2006. Everything about the game—from combat mechanics and talent trees, to character models and zone layouts—has been restored to realize a truly authentic experience.”
Guess they aren’t going for this anymore, what a shame. Wanting to play Vanilla/TBC/WotLK/etc. as it was really is a big ask when it comes to this team cause someone in there always has “a better idea”…
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Well this conversation was not about community, but about difficulty.
In the past, I very rarely advocated for the community argument. My principal argument has always been immersion. Keeping an immersive MMORPG where the world feels alive and where you interact with the world as much as possible.
Please provide your source.
Great!
Sorry, the ship has looong since sailed on #nochanges. Sadly, no RDF at all. But no arena teams either. Awesome! We also don’t have to deal with busted S5 DKs either. Great! And blizzard’s kneejerk reaction at the time of removing glad from 2s also got repealed. Very smart of the devs to realize the two were linked, and that they could re-institute 2s glad! More arena participation is amazing, especially in my dead region!
As I’ve already posted in this thread, and don’t wanna be a broken record, but Uld 25 HM gear should NOT be superseded by ToC 10 gear that honestly 6 players could probably clear.
And - as a bonus - ICC made even harder. It’s actually all wins.
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Blizzard… you have ONE JOB here. 
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Difficulty is definitely easier, but we’ve all seen that the difficulty in Classic/TBC was way overblown and very easily mowed through. Despite this, the community still alienated people, min/maxed, and overall was quite harsh to people who were new, inexperienced, or not very good at the game.
It’s a far cry from how the community was in the original vanilla/TBC, but even then there were issues with discrimination.
Immersion is entirely subjective and differs from player to player, so I’m not sure how you expect anyone to be able to keep the world, “alive”. Especially when I mostly see people AFKing in cities now.
As I said in a different thread, I’d like RDF, but I’d also like the teleport removed for post-Azeroth dungeons. It won’t do much for the world - people will just fly over - but it does make them fly over.
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Very interesting they are considering this.
I think this very clearly states they have LONG TERM plans for Classic. Gonna milk that cow til its jerky.
We shall see.
I respect that. You are without a doubt the smartest pro RDF person i’ve encountered on these forum. I get your perspective, i’de be curious to explore more ways to fix those issues, other than “leave the game exactly how it was”.
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Only in the “we live in interesting times” kind of way. It’s absolutely horrific that this has even manifested in their minds for a second.
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Does the statement from Blizzard and their proclaimed intentions for the game suffice? That statement is what attracted people to play the game, so it’s fairer to say the people who play now were attracted because of that advertised proclamation since that was the stated intention.
No, not at all. See above please. This version of the game was advertised to oppose these sorts of things. That’s what most people are here for.
And that somehow justifies worse incoming changes because?
Yes, so why are more unfaithful changes okay?
Again, see previous.
Why?
So what you’re telling me is you don’t want to play Wrath the way it was originally. That’s fine, but the original Blizzard statement was, again:
In short the majority of people are not okay with pathological lies. That’s what saying, “We’re going to remain faithful!” while simultaneously whacking the original version is doing: lying.
I don’t know if you support lying but I do not. I also do not support the manipulation of others through deceit. That’s precisely what this is, saying one is remaining faithful while cheating on their words.
But it was. That’s how the game was. Again, the original intention of “Classic” was to remain faithful to the OG. It’s not. If you don’t want this, go petition for this version of the game you prefer. The people who were attracted to Blizzard’s original proclamations are the majority of the people who are here - unless you think that the stated intentions of Blizzard are somehow unrelated to WoW Classic, which is…well, that’d just be denial.
If this is the goal then pump up the numbers. Simple. Do not mess with game balance. That’s a hornet’s nest.
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Well that’s probably a bad thing, but not particularly surprising given the majority of players don’t want to engage as much on the forums.
I think the safest approach is to leave it how it was. SoM wasn’t very successful, and a lot of players simply don’t trust Blizzard - I certainly don’t - and don’t want Blizzard to dig their fingers in.
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I swear i didnt mean that as an insult or anything xD
ah the ol’ the game might be slightly harder so I should just quit whinging.
How original
Someone made a thread talking about this. Even with an ilvl squish, it’d have to be massive for the items to not be an upgrade - especially the tier which is overall quite strong. They have made the different versions of trinkets unique in that you can’t wear two of one, so that increases the longevity of Ulduar trinkets. Plus guilds are always going to keep doing Ulduar for Val’anyr.
It’s less that it’s going to be harder (even slightly) and more the current changes they’ve made have made it more tedious rather than harder, and previous ilvl squishes have been really bad overall for the game as it radically affected old content and caused a lot of problems in general.
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Almost brings a tear to my eye thinking about it. We will never get to play WoTLK again because of all of these changes. They could have saved it for a year and did WoTLK SOM. Why did they have to do this…
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