Stop trying to gaslight about warriors

WoW Classic Cataclysm Classic Discussion
82

What? Going from 4k to 14k and 6k to 16k is the same 10k increase for each player.

If it was a 2k gap the whole way, no one scaled better.

Yes actual scaling is not perfect. In phase 2, rogues scaled harder than warriors for example. Various items and trinkets move it around a bit. Some people a while back posted a chart that I would have to spend extensive time digging up but it showed the various percent increases between phases and all the classes were in a similar ballpark.

And if a warrior was doing 102k versus a lock doing 104k, its even closer, but that wasnt what anyone at blizzard or the copium folks on forums said would happen. They all scaled parallel. 4 to 6 and 102 to 104 makes two parallel lines.

No, they did not. The lock maintained the 2k dps lead the entire time. That is parallel. If you think they had to gain equal percents, you failed basic math. If a warrior is at 4k and a lock is 6k, he is at 2/3rds the damage. A warrior would have to scale slower to keep this ratio, meaning when a warrior hit 10k dps the lock would be at 15k dps, making the gap 5000 dps instead of 2000. That isnt parallel scaling.

No, no it didnt. The warrior gained 10k dps from gear and the lock gained 10k dps from gear, they scaled parallel. This could go on forever and the warrior never beats the lock. If the warrior was scaling “harder” as you said, that means he is getting more dps from gear and surpasses the lock, which never actually happens, because he doesnt scale harder.

The photo I linked you had some basic algebra equations in it.

83

But that’s not what scaling means. Like at all.

If one didn’t scale better than the other it wouldn’t be a 2k gap the whole way.

This is really simply middle school math.

Yes, assuming the same talents and specs could reach these numbers this is indeed indicative that the warrior scaled better than the warlock.

The 2k number is utterly irrelevant, the warrior scaled better.

You really don’t understand scaling at all do you?

Sure, but it makes no sense in the context of scaling.

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84

https://i.imgur.com/Qn57B9W.png

Those make parallel lines, that is what happened. Warriors did not scale harder. All classes gained very similar dps from phase 1 (not perfect, but close)

The “warriors scale hard” and “warriors are 252 kings” was misinformation. They were gaining dps at a similar rate to other classes. They scaled ever so slightly better than average, especially by the end of ICC, so they go from dead last of the non-meme specs to middle of the pack, middle-upper with a rare legendary.

If they actually scaled hard, theyd be up there w/ fire mages, which actually do scale hard, and maybe even a tad more because a rare legendary adds like 1k dps (an ongoing issue, like Thoredal and Glaives).

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85

Aka, they scaled better cause their outset was lower.

Yes Aggrend probably shouldn’t have said “252 kings” but if you don’t think warriors are completely viable in the game right now you’re smoking something. I think you’d be hard pressed to find me saying Blizzards communication is any good.

But set aside the feelscraft of hating the guy, warriors have very much outscaled the warlock (or whatever class you think went from 6k to 16k) assuming your numbers.

But… they are.

86

No, that’s scaling in favor of the warrior.

4k to 6k is a 50% gain in DPS over that tier
Going from 6k to 8k is a 33% gain in DPS over that tier. Warriors are scaling better. Given enough time and gear upgrades, you expect the warrior to pass the class that got less over the tier.

The rise over run you quote literally shows warrior with a steeper slope than the vast majority of specs.

This means that you expect warrior to eventually pass specs with the smaller relative scaling.

And they do. Warrior started at undisputed worst DPS. By ICC, if they don’t get a legendary, they have passed more than half the specs in the game. If they get one, they can tie almost all of the top specs, and ruby sanctum puts them a bit further ahead because again, they scale better than almost everyone.

And, as a side note, warrior without Smourne is talking more like 15.5k DPS, which puts them only 1k behind the top DPS specs, and only about 1400 behind the two outlier top specs that do slightly more on sims than the rest of the best specs.

And no, ret doesn’t have all of their utility in that spec, they lack DSac, which is arguably the biggest one we could have, as it’s the only stackable utility in paladin that matters.

If they were truly scaling in parallel, warrior wouldn’t be mid tier in ICC without shadowmourne. They’d still be dead last. The fact that the 1k DPS shadowmourne bridges the remaining 1k DPS to the top specs also shows that the 2k gap shrunk to 1k when ignoring the legendary.

Warrior scaling happened as predicted. It wasn’t meant to make you S tier, just one of the better DPS classes when you started off as the undisputed worst. That’s exactly what happened.

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87

This is a really long-winded way of saying you are sad your guild chose a Ret over you for Smourne.

88

What is wrong with you? Are you really this insecure? Why do you need to be #1 dps on single target and cleave fights?

Your whining is absolutely asinine. It’s like a toddler throwing a tantrum in the grocery store, because they want a toy. Ill tell you the same thing I would the toddler, “You have perfectly good toys at the house.” Unfortunately, I can’t take you out of the store though, so everyone has to suffer.

Nah, he just wants to be #1 dps. He was whining during the TOGC patch as well.

With the change to Smourne, it’s only going to take like ~6 weeks to make 1. So, the fury warrior dps in the guild will almost certainly get one too. Unless, he is insufferable, like this guy, then hopefully they give it to the blood DK.

89

the narrative was wrong and the information was inaccurate
<omg stop asking to be #1!

???
I don’t understand how this keeps popping up, where do people say “waaahhhh woyors need to be top wtf guise” People keep making stuff up and attacking the arguer instead of disputing the arguments

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90

Probably because your sole argument is that you want to be #1 dps without just outright saying it?

91

You are insecure and projecting and need to reassess how to identify an argument without making broad assumptions about the intent or character of the person presenting the argument. Please read up on argumentative fallacies, especially ad hominem, and stop arguing in bad faith simply because you dislike what is being said.

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92

No, you are projecting, and badly hiding behind semantics. What you want is obvious for everyone to see.

93

If you like Warrior then you’re fine. If all you want is to be top dps then reroll Ret or Feral. Hybrid tax is no longer a thing and it never should have been a thing in the first place. Get over it. Being in the middle where every spec from best to worst is at least viable is infinitely better than being at the top where the bottom half of the specs are trolling and need to reroll

94

Well, it’s somewhat implied when threads are complaining about ret buffs that brought them up to Fury’s level (along with some seriously broken items helping out), ferals beating Smourne warriors on sims (despite most ferals not being anywhere good enough to match their sim numbers), and complaints that scaling didn’t bring them to the absolute top, just among several classes there.

It’s just weird seeing warrior complaints about where they are simming in ICC when they are basically tied for 3rd, and only about 400 DPS shy of the highest single target sim while having great cleave to supplement that single target damage.

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95

Did you even read the OP?

96

main character syndrome

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97

I don’t care if you’re arguing with literally Hitler, dispute the argument

did you? he was just making the point that many arguments told warriors “wait until ICC,” and not only did we wait and arrive to the conclusion that the assertion was wrong, but the buffed classes both didn’t have to wait, and are now top. Which is unfair. Which doesn’t say, nerf them or put warriors on the top, just calling out unequal treatment.

98

You have no argument… You are just whining about how you feel entitled to be the uncontested #1 dps.

Fury Warriors in ICC are S tier.

You believing something you were told from some random is a you problem hoss.

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99

Was it wrong? Warriors are effectively tied among the top DPS. 400 out of 16.9k (the actual top) is like… A 2.5% difference from the top?

I’d say that reasonably, warriors are a top DPS in ICC.

What tier has ret been top in?

Not Naxx, not Ulduar, not ToC… Even with buffs they needed to wait until ICC. They were put alongside warrior… I.e., the same “wait untill ICC” group.

Without the buffs, Ret wouldn’t have even reached mid tier without shadowmourne, and tiny abom, and 2pc tier 10… No amount of waiting would have made ret good, just playable if you could convince your guild to give you a legendary weapon instead of the warriors which gets bumped to a top DPS spec with it.

There was nothing unfair about those buffs.

I’ll agree that feral didn’t need buffs along with the QoL fixes.

100

This is kinda my point. You cut the context out of the quote on purpose. There is no way you didn’t read it. This thread had nothing to do with how warriors are doing and everything to do with people being fake.

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101

I included the relevant context. There is not any context that will change the meaning of that sentence. You admit yourself many people rolled warriors so they could be on top of DPS in ICC. That’s what this is about.