Yeah, I’m pretty sure this was your complaint when you changed the talents, removed reforging, removed professions. Blizzard stated they didn’t want us to go and look up cookie cutter specs and they didn’t want us to optimize gear. The philosophy of this development changes faster then a Trump lie.
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No one is denying gear treadmill exists, but I’m seeing your posts, and you’re going into lala land with the crazy stretches you make up to white knight the devs’ poor decisions.
There is a huge difference between a Ring which is still usable by all specs or whatever other example you have, and an entire piece having no usable secondary stats whatsoever because they’re replaced by spec or role locked traits.
You can say what you want about Artifact weapons, but weapons and trinkets are the only slots left with poor flexibility. Azerite roughly doubles the number of gear slots which need to be farmed 2 or 3 times over, and far more than just 2 or 3 times with excessive RNG because ilvl on Azerite is even more valuable than usual.
So I don’t know who you are or what you think you’re accomplishing, but your responses are incorrect on every level and equate completely unrelated/incorrect things for no reason other than to be a diehard defender.
Except it is unanimously agreed upon that prior loot and master looter was much easier for folks to get gear? Again, we go back to that whole having beliefs that are not consistent with reality.
And all secondaries had value in all specs. Most role traits are useless outside that role for what other roles need, and 99% of spec traits are useless outside that spec.
You have quite a severe attitude for someone who just spouts completely incorrect statements as fact. I am personally exercising a lot of patience and tact when responding to the hot air you post.
There is no benefit to a Reforge cost. It’s already a huge pain to go out of your way to the guy to do it (doubly so for Horde since your Hearth might be Great Seal), there’s no reason whatsoever to turn it into a gold drain that penalizes people helping their groups and friends.
Which is the point.
No matter how much some poster with delusions want to shill or defend this, the fact remains that there’s no beneficial reason in FAVOR of it.
Even the dev’s logic is literally almost word-for-word “because we want it to be inconvenient” not because it serves any beneficial purpose to the state of the game.
This is different than not caring. They actually want it to be a hassle, their own words on reforge costs. Not caring implies they’re not fixing it because they’re lazy, but this is a matter of the subject being a big hassle to players working as they do intend.
And thenbeing confused that players are aggravated when they’re being taxed for trying to help groups and friends.
Did you know that they fixed that because it was really obnoxious for loot tables?
So why do you want then to revert beneficial changes to the game exactly?
By your logic, they should just remove flying mounts too, and the flight master’s whistle, the group finder, transmog, etc because someone somewhere used to have to have a pain in the butt time with some obtuse function or lack of basic QOL way back then.
That’s ridiculous. Stop defending bad decisions.
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Excuse me, but logic is not “lala land” and let’s not start off with insulting comments simply because you disagree. I am not white knighting anything. Nor do I deserve such jabs of immaturity.
I hate Azerite gear with the fires of a thousand burning suns. Have since they announced it. Quit playing because of it. Only reason I’m back is because of friends. So don’t presume because I disagree with this punishment drama that I somehow love what the devs did.
My example was the Artifact weapons. Or did you just gloss over that part? Last time I checked, I didn’t have to level up one set of gear to get all of my traits and then have to start leveling up a different set for a different spec. I spent Legion grinding out AP for FOUR weapons. We don’t have to do that now. You can hop over to a reforger and swap traits if you don’t have the piece you want. Or you can go get a new piece and use those traits.
Is it ideal? Nope. And this poor replacement for talents is crap. But it’s NOT some dramatic punishment towards those of us who play off specs in raids.
And considering off specs have always been impossible to keep up with main spec gear, this is still no different than in the past. You don’t have BiS gear for both at the same time. You never did. It’s why one was off spec and one was main spec.
Again, since you seem to believe I somewhere said otherwise: Azerite is a poor replacement for talents and real gear. I’ve never once said I liked it. But it is NOT a punishment to off specs. Especially considering the bs we went through in Legion with those weapons.
Don’t condescend to me like that.
ML is a better system. But it didn’t mean you always got loot. You could go a week or more in 25 mans where people wouldn’t get gear at all. And off spec gear took a LOT of time to get the better pieces.
And please show me this “unanimously” you seem to believe exists. Last I checked, there was no poll across every player who raids in this game that shows this presumption on your part.
And all generic traits are just as “useful” as bad secondaries in an off spec. Which, if you’ve forgotten, there’s still how many other slots we have to have good secondaries for? I’m still carrying almost full sets of gear, regardless of the expansion.
By starting off with insults whereas I never once insulted anyone and posted facts and an opposing point of view without the attitude you and others have? Right. Please take your attitude to Reddit. Mine only comes out when people like you feel that being so condescending and throwing insults is somehow a good argument.
You’re not excused. You keep making up nonsense “Oh Secondary stats which have some value in all specs are the same as Azerite traits!” and “Wanting to farm that item with Crit because it’s better than that item with Haste is the same as Traits which do literally nothing”.
They’re not the same.
Don’t try to make yourself a martyr when you’ve expressed a similar “I’m done with you” and calling someone’s post “meaningless”. I’m done with this part of this discussion. ![:smiley:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/smiley.png?v=6" ":smiley:")
Not at all, you keep dropping a lot of examples. Most of them are wrong. My counterpoint was that Artifacts occupied a gear slot which already often needed to be swapped out. Azerite more or less replaced Tier sets, in slots which have NOT had to be multi-farmed in years.
Having to farm multiple Weapon/Trinket slot items is something that’s never been done away with. Having to farm multiple body slots IS something that is done away with.
Which is why this thread exists. Stop excusing the devs for attaching a tax to players for just trying to HELP each other.
Instead of defending the devs in a game you’ve “quit” because of the very system you’re defending, you apparently would’ve made your case better by not posting instead of shooting yourself in the foot.
Yes, but only for a few slots. You would accept weaker secondaries for a higher ilvl very often, and it always came down to Weapons and Trinkets. Now it’s Weapons and Trinkets AND HEADS AND CHESTS AND SHOULDERS, which it has not been in a very long time.
And then add on the RNG of those Head/Chest/Shoulders being bad for your main spec AND worthless for other specs all in 1 go, but forced to be used and forced to be spec’d a certain way due to ilvl.
Actually, this is also false. A number of them are only damage procs and Healers in challenging content may get no benefit at all since you don’t get to leisurely just afk and dps for long periods in challenging content, where it also becomes more noticeable that you’re also not receiving the healing benefit.
And again 8.1 is adding a ring of spec-specific traits, but considering the fact that you keep posting things are outright wrong, I imagine you’ve also not followed the information on upcoming changes to Azerite. So that ring’s just going to be worthless for more than 1 spec 99% of the time.
And, of course, this has been a big motivation for people to justly harp on how needless and excessively penalizing reforge costs are, ie the entire premise of this thread you’re posting in, which is why people are griping about it so much.
It’s almost like this thread has a premise grounded in reality!
While you have “quit” the game and come back to post in defense of something so bad you “quit” over.
You know what, nope, not going to rise to your “not insulting” bait. I had a whole bit on your attitude and why my tone had risen to match yours, but I’m going to leave it be. I just wanted to acknowledge your little bit of petty name-calling here while you’re saying how much you’re totally “not insulting” anyone.
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Can’t you buy azerite pieces in 8.1 using the scrapper for some currency? Or was that nixed?
Either way, the issue that exists with me for Azerite is that it’s too passive and that class homogenization has made one stat entirely too strong for a particular spec rather than allowing each spec some way to scale off each stat for different situations.
Artifact weapon power was a pain as well, but it feels like AP flowed alot more freely because the BfA Heart catchup mechanic actually encourages you to not log in. Or at least do nothing when you do.
Additionally, Artifact weapons were dedicated entirely to that spec, meaning the entire tree buffed the spec and there were still tier sets as well.
Now I never agreed that tier set bonuses should swap based upon your spec. I’m a bit more old school than that. But they certainly were more interesting because farming tier sets and the opportunity for them to WF/TF provided you with a potential upgrade in all but the most overgeared situations.
The issues go a bit deeper though as well: stats are kind of uninteresting. Yeah, haste and crit are no brainers, but versatility remains pretty poor. At least spell hit/hit rating/expertise and spirit were palpable in their effect. Versatility is just meh.
And don’t get started on crafted gear and the state of professions overall…
How I’d fix this (without any expectation it could be done in BfA:)
-
New stat suggestions-
Recovery-CD’s come back up more quickly.
Surge-Critical strike bonus damage increased
Spirit-Mana recovery (bring it back)
Hit Rating-Also bring it back to provide hard caps on scaling (it will always eat some item budget.) -
Bring back crafted sets at starter level and make us farm rare mats for epic sets via instanced solo and group content. Make them upgradable.
-
Bring back 7 piece tier and pvp sets that don’t swap with spec.
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Alter the talent trees so that if I want to build a crit focused afflock I can. Don’t worry about what ends up as “the best” because if you do this right, then in some cases a crit focused aff lock would be preferred for say, the ability to ramp quicker or provide more burst at the cost of sustained or more reliance on CD windows. For tanks and healing, the same applies.
-
Alternative advancement (Azerite, weapons) that is meaningful and interesting.
Again, ideas: Scaling trinket proc-style. Group synergies. Calling in assistance. Empowerment similar to azerite but in regards to raw stats. Survivability (aka Prydaz but scaling and stronger.)
Mythic raid guild, monk tank/dps. DPS Taloc so a Paladin can tank and cheese the mechanic. Tank mother, DPS Zek’voz so we have a blood DK for adds. Tank Vectis, Fetid, Zul, Mythrax, DPS G’huun to run orbs. Assuming my best azerite configurations are on the same pieces (not a terrible assumption now that you’ve made them closer together so ilvl is more relevant) I’m switching 3 pieces each time 4 times a week. That is 12 respecs per 3 reductions, 18 per 3 if I want to M+ in between pulls where I am DPSing. The 12 respec version 20,475g the first week, and the first respec the second week starts at 2560g. The second week it will be costing you on the order of 100,000g. The 18 respect version is worse. The geometric progression of costs needs to go.
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Yes its similar to Artifact weapons but the base of his argument is still there, Tier sets went poof, Azerite armor went in the spots that it filled .What BENEFIT is removed by having your gear become much less functional when you swap specs?
EX I’m still missing the chest of mythrax it has BIS shadow trait, it also has a bis Disc trait, I have killed her 9 times between heroic and normal now but have yet to see this chest drop, How am I supposed to have multiple sets when I cant even get one of them to drop?
You may argue that go farm other pieces, sure from where? O I c. wait till the patch comes out, it helps fix this FLAWED system, of course its flawed other wise they wouldn’t be changing it.( In reply to someone else in this thread)
I’m pretty sure that most can agree with that their not happy about something with it, My question is inline with Tywin’s but slightly opposite, Why not have it swap spec with you. What is the harm? Is there just a stupid Abundant amount of gold in the Economy right now where you just need to have an arbitrary gold sink.
(slightly off topic but it has a point)
I’m sure all of you have SO much gold right now with their being about 4-5 gold WQ up giving 100 gold ish each, that covers what? One full repair bill? Sure you can say play the AH make money there and Ill agree to a point but where do they get their gold? the 500G of daily quest a day? There is a serious lack of Gold from outside sources and I feel way to much Deflation going on right now to have this azurite gear need to act as a gold sink.
see also middle of raid and, hold on guys our healer D/c’d to a power outage. Let me hearth back and re spec my azerite armor so I can heal and not be gimping the raid on this progression boss. This used to be, oh hey Johnny go swap heals and boom done, yes some pieces of gear swapped, but tier sets didn’t have to. That was implemented as a player convivence that I don’t know of anyone that didn’t like it. PLEASE if you didn’t like tier sets swaping specs with you please reply so I can find these masochist unicorns.
Everyone wants to play with what is best, to the best of their ability when possible is an inherent assumption win playing video games, because who wants to play gimped, who LIKES playing a game intentionally handicapped, increasing your chance of failing, if ya do, go raid in greens. Heroic Ghuun has apparently a Raid ilvl req of 315 according to wowprogress
Now on to re-forging…. you claim false equivalency with azurite armor to tier set but you call re-forging in BFA the same thing as Mists? I think I see the problem here
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True, there is that. Guess I’ll be doing that as I level my Druid. ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
Where did I ever equate reforging in Mists to swapping traits in Azerite armor? Are you talking to the correct person? ![:face_with_raised_eyebrow:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/face_with_raised_eyebrow.png?v=6" ":face_with_raised_eyebrow:")
Again: I never said Azerite armor was a good thing. Not once. I said no one is punishing you. Big difference. No one sat down and tried to make our lives harder as if we did something wrong and we needed to be beaten with a spoon.
I called out the hyperbole and overreaction. Y’all decided to go waaaay beyond that and somehow believe that I’m defending Blizz.
I’m not. I’m telling you that we’ve had to carry extra gear since the dawn of time in this game. I’m telling you that Legion Artifact leveling was MUCH worse than this pile of poop we currently have. We’ve always had to deal with some sort of bs in having an off spec that people take for granted we grind our butts off to attempt to make viable.
Does it suck? Sure. Is it some form of dramatic temper tantrum throwing punishment? No.
Hardly surprising. The thread title shows a lack of reasonability.
Hmm by your reply Is it safe to assume that you meant Re-forging of azerite traits in general? My apologies I was of the thought you were going off the statement that a decent size of the community has been asking for re-forging back since they removed back with the completion of mists,
For the rest of the reply
the removal a Tier sets and their ability to swap bonuses when you swapped specs pretty much feels like a punishment. That is pretty much all the thread overall is asking for, There is lots of divergences but w/e.
I never once stated you were defending blizz, my apologies if you perceived that.
Ill will agree that we have been carrying around multiple sets of gear for a while but usually it was made fairly convenient see
Wrath and spirit acting as hit for dps classes
Gear sets swapping when you change your spec with out a macro
Glyph system changing ( eerily similar to an azurite trait) when you swapped spec
Tier sets swapping bonuses when you swap specs,
Gear pieces swapping Primary Stat when you swapped spec.
It feels as we have regressed instead of progressing forward with the game. yes some things …. I hate to say this, need to regress, for the health of the game see
stats when you level up. Imagine being at end of say …. Burning Crusade and you had 30% haste and that NEVER WENT down, how much would you have now? 150% 300%?)
Abilities ( Imagine if you never lost an ability ever and kept getting 3-4 every 10 levels would you have enough action bars to take advantage of every ability? Although this could be seen as progress /shrug see down ranking of spells)
Its just frustrating is all. So I’ll ask again
What harm is allowed into the game by allowing people to swap azerite traits by swapping specs?
See, that’s just it. I never said it was a problem. The drama and hyperbole in here are a problem. That’s all.
Have we regressed? Yup. This expansion is poop. Bad move with no talents. Bad move with this traits bs again. Bad move with horribly written storylines.
I only came here to point out the insane amount of hyperbole going on. People started making weird arguments and raging at me. I pointed out the flaws in their hyperbole. More rage. It’s almost as bad as High Elf threads when you try to make some people calm down and have a normal discussion without the drama.
I don’t disagree that Azerite stuff is dumb and just here to make us think we’re working towards something. I disagree with somehow equating it to some dramatic punishment. But Azerite gear needs to die in a blaze of fel and shadow.
In my opinion they should either remove the cost to reset the traits or make azerite gear farmable. The gear vendor change in 8.1 is huge but word on the street is it’s going to take a very long time to farm for the good pieces.
Its punishing in its current form in terms of being a gold sink, See preivous post.
The economy is crap
I would love to see the SERVER gold count and how much it has dropped over the expansion so far and am curious to see what their goal is. And would love to see an explaniation as to why azerite had to be apart of that.
I will say the only reason I could see for NOT being able to swap specs azerite thing being a thing is pure dps classes, oh that boss favors AOE I can just swap to that spec and have the azerite gear swap to traits that favor AOE and not have a penalty where Hybrids such as priest, paladin, monk, cant swap to a different spec and round two of this argument starts up. Its still a friction bar but it is lower.
The benefit to people who swap roles far outweighs the costs of hybrids and swapping imo
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Isn’t that the poor reason they gave us for not letting us swap talents outside of rest zones, until they caved and gave us tomes? I remember that. LOL
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I see the posts and I think Rhielle is just a troll. It was likely in the context of the old Reforging of secondary stats, but then we get “Don’t you people have phones” but for Reforging.
There isn’t any, that’s the entire point. Letting players more freely adapt to help and do content with their guildies and friends is a plus.
Yes yes, you’re a martyr, poor you. You dismiss the entire premise of the thread multiple times over, then act shocked when people feel like you have a dismissive attitude in your posts. Gee, I wonder why.
Grossly overcosted, it’s going to be like Legion Legendary catchup.
Hey, finally something I agree with.
But no, they’ve never given a reason for gutting Caster mobility, gutting smart heals on AOE healing, making talents a pain to swap, or making azurite a pain to swap, aside from “We feel like it”.
It’s very arbitrary, some attachment to archaic outdated inconveniences.
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Except you and the majority of this thread, that are complaining, are in the minority. You are not an average player to be respeccing azerite traits on a level 117 warlock that only gets minimal traits to begin with. You’re reaching with this post.
The standard UI Equipment Manager does this pretty well. Create a separate set for each spec, and set the spec for it to auto-equip. I also put the set icon on my bars so I can reload the correct set (e.g. if I’ve been fishing).
As others have said, I don’t disagree with the sentiment but it is now very challenging and frustrating to use item restore if you have the audacity to make transmog runs - gutting the search feature functionality actually hurts your argument here because it implies that exactly what you are trying to suggest is not a valid use case.
Additionally and not meant to be snarky, you know there’s an account wide limit here right? So, if a shared trait is balanced, you run the item restore cooldown for multiple characters.
Azerite, intended or not, is a replacement for Tier sets, whose bonuses changed with changing your spec. Most gear now is dual statted so that you can wear it with more than one spec. Even some trinkets are like this now. So it seems kindof an about face with this reforging system.
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