If we wanted to do the current content in raid finder wouldn’t we be playing retail?
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Since you’re new to the TBC era, spoiler they nerfed most bosses back in TBC/2007.
But I’m glad you made a piss poor attempt at doing the daily quota of trashing retail WoW when no one here is talking about retail WoW.
I keep reading the argument that both bosses were nerfed (Kael’thas WASN’T) before any guild reached them, but remember: Black Temple was released (and hyjal already available).
Don’t call for nerfs before Black Temple is released.
And YES, once we killed Kael and Vashj we all went Hyjal 4/5 and started doing Black Temple while attuning others. We had like 5 Vashj/Kael’thas kills before moving on.
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I can’t believe they are doing this. It does go to show how little they know about the community of Classic Players. Please stop nerfing content. Its already bad enough the way it is. Most WoW players want the content to be more difficult not easier. If you guys are thinking this will bring back subscribers you are so wrong it just will not, it will have the opposite effect actually. I suggest you come and play the game again.
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Vashj was only killed twice in her original form. I’m not 100% but I had always thought that Method and Nihilum were the ONLY guilds that killed her while persuasion was in the encounter, and the Nihilum kill was the bugged kill (and even they admitted it shouldn’t be considered a legit kill). If that is the case then that means only 1 guild got 1 legit kill on the version of Vashj we have on Classic atm, up until now. So this version of Vashj is basically a buffed version compared to what even the earliest kills back then had to deal with (save 1-2 guilds w/ 1 ‘kill’ each). This is not the content you or most anyone else (‘hardcore’ included) remember from back in the day. At least for Vashj 
There were also myriad other bugs in the encounter that made it more difficult (as these VERY few guilds to reach the content that early back then were basically beta-testing, as there was no PTR back then).
Btw, this doesn’t mean I’m for the nerfs. I think they should give the original, hardest forms of the bosses (as long as they’re killable) and never nerf them at all. Ever.
Isn’t that funny? A boss that was nigh-unkillable by the world’s best players stacking consumes and world buffs is now farmed by thousands of guilds weekly.
Kael’s Shock Barrier is funny, too. Was supposed to be pretty much impossible to break for the first cast, forcing you to use the shield. Now? We break it halfway through the first cast every time. Zugging has evolved greatly.
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I wonder if Brutallus will really be a dps check or if they’ll have to buff him.
Just be clear, what we got wasn’t anything in their “original form”. We’re on a new architecture, massaged data, and the latest patch. Just saying, is all.
The minute any of the future bosses feel like any of the “easier” bosses in SSC or TK, I’m done with this game.
Well… according to google, Brutallus requires 29k raid dps. My raid did 29k dps on our Void Reaver kill this week. Soooo yeah.
Longer fight, more mechanics, but I have a feeling the dps check won’t be an issue.
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IMO the latest patch increases our power significantly. There are too much data to gather, but I read that the casters regen is very strong right now.
The mediation talent is like 30% instead of 15%, and we can regen from both int and spirit.
Items in Karazhan are in a buffed state as well.
Mages also do not have their attacks penalised by the cast time reducing talents.
There are many to keep track of. It’s not a surprise if we can clear more boss than before. The point is, it’s very hard to compare 07 and 21 TBC games. I don’t think we can point to the past and use that as a reference to how TBCC should run.
It is true that if a raid can’t kill end bosses reliably, they should not expect to clear content and get phat loot. But 2021 is not 2007, we no longer have an influx of new players. It is better to keep everyone happy.
TBH each phase should just launch in its nerfed state. There should be no “pre-nerf then nerf later” situation that we’re getting now.
and everyone will be using elixirs of demonslaying so increase that dps even assuming your dps doesn’t get a single upgrade from now.
Only difficult thing about the fight is timing heals with meteor slash + and managing burn
why make things easier for no reason? There’s LFR in retail if you wanted a guided safari tour of raiding
That was only fireball & frostbolt. And it wasnt added until 2.0.6 … then removed in 2.3. One of their dumbest ideas in all of TBC TBH.
Cap the fee at 20 or 30g. Why is it so hard !!!
Yes, I know it’s crazy. ALthough, remember, those fights were bugged in many ways as well at first. We also have over a decade of gaming/raiding/wow experience. I’m sure if you took 25 players from those 2 guilds that are still playing after all this time (or at least played for a number of years afterwards and came back for classic) they would be able to stomp those bosses to the ground as well.
Raiding went through an enormous change between the launch of TBC and when Sunwell was released. A paradigm shift… lol. I’m sure if you took any of the first, i dunno…, 20 or so guilds to kill KJ and put them against this version of vashj they’d be able to kill it easily back then just the same.
And, yea, it’s insane about shock barrier and the whole rest of that fight. All the most difficult parts were due to lower dps. Having all the phases overlap…WHILE dealing with shock barrier and everything else. And you basically NEEDED a prot warrior with 22k+ hp just so he could survive multiple pyros on every barrier. Now it’s the easy fight.
Brutallus had just over 10mil HP when initially released in tbc. For years now, private servers that have been buffing tbc content have had him with like 16mil hp and the same enrage timer. There are guilds that still kill him no problem (with raid dps fluctuating between the 40ks and the low 60k’s). A lot of these guilds are very optimized, though, with rotating heroisms, using multiple annihilators and even un’goro crystals to reduce armor as much as possible, etc. But anyway… the rest of the content in tbc classic may very well actually be easier than Vashj or Kael are right now.
I don’t see any fights in BT/Hyjal giving the top 1000 guilds any problems whatsoever. In sunwell, M’uru, in his very first form with pushback from negative energy and all that, MIGHT be a minor challenge. MIGHT. I’m not sure. KJ may end up proving harder for all I know (although if that’s the case then they’ll both be stomped). I don’t have any idea how guilds have been doing M’uru on these private servers, never looked it up, but I’d wager most ppl will use the og Drow strat of multiple prot pallies and just stack locks and aoe both sides together in one big pile. ez mode.
For more average guilds, casual guilds, even most ‘midcore’ or “semi-hc” guilds, there will be a few more roadblocks, but I don’t see anything but OG M’uru or POSSIBLY KJ giving trouble equal to t5 endbosses. Mother will still be a challenge for them, for sure. Illidan and even Archi will also give somewhat of a challenge (all 3 of those will depend on just how weak their weakest links are). I’m sure Reliquary will give a lot of guilds some trouble at first as well. But I don’t see any of them being more challenging than t5 endbosses for more average guilds.
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TBH your guild can barely kill Solarian and Tidewalker.
Right. That also can’t be stressed enough. Having 2.4 talents, etc. in the game from the start was basically another blanket ‘nerf’ to all content prior to sunwell. Things like warrior WW hitting with both hands, among many other changes that weren’t in the game until 2.3 or 2.4 do make a big difference. Not to mention melee have access to expertise! Most new players don’t realize that items like the lower city exalted ring weren’t as universally good as they are now, as when tbc first launched those items only had 1 specific tpe of weapon skill (as expertise wasn’t a thing until 2.3). People are also playing with much better connections, lower ping, on a new client/engine… Can’t be directly compared to early '07
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