There’s plenty of differences between tier set bonuses and borrowed power systems. There was no immense amount of time and effort that you needed to put in after acquiring your bonuses. With borrowed power systems like Covenants and Legendaries, you’re stuck on the endless grind for the moment the expansion drops.
Legion got away with it because it was the first time they dropped a borrowed power system. But for me as someone who took part in hard content, I can only stomach World Quests for so long before I die on the inside from boredom.
They absolute are not a bad system, they reward players for farming the raid and make subsequent runs even better and in some cases change things up.
The system isn’t bad because Blizzard is inept and decides to preemptively balance around these things, that’s just Blizzard being inept. The system is fine and always was, the only time it ever came to be a problem for them was when we had gear slots in Legion most classes couldn’t adjust and for a lot of specs these happened to be on slots where tier would normally go. As I said earlier, rogues needed their legendary shoulders, tier shoulders were a dead on arrival drop as a result.
This isn’t borrowed power, or wasn’t initially. In Vanilla some classes used niche tier set bonuses well into tiers above them. The issue came more when Blizzard decided “HIGHER ITEM LEVEL SHOULD JUST MEAN IT’S OUTRIGHT BETTER!” so you now had to replace them every tier that they became a form similar to borrowed power just on a patch by patch basis instead of an expansion one. In Wrath I was still using niche pieces of my Frostfire set from OG Naxx on my mage just for the cooldown cut on Evocation which in Wrath was a much smaller cooldown. This led to a DPS gain because I was able to burst hard every 3 minutes instead of every 4 and mattered a lot when it came to fights that were entirely about damage output like 0light Yogg-Saron, which I first downed with that set bonus equipped to push my damage. Not a bad trade off for swapping out only two pieces of gear for ones with less stats but much more benefit. I’m talking TIER 3 FROSTFIRE here, NOT tier 7 frostfire which did not have this set bonus.
I was using the tier 0.5 set bonus for rogues going into Naxxramas because when it decided it wanted to play nice it was a very nice blessing for a dagger rogue that made the spec not feel like hot garbage to play with its basic “Backstabx5 > SnD” rotation that had almost zero wiggle room to actually use abilities because it was very strict timing with the energy ticks that it basically just barely was able to keep itself sustained. Past that the only extra abilities you could throw in necessitated Adrenaline Rush, Tea, or Renataki’s, I used that very same set going into Karazhan for TBCC and throughout my leveling process even as swords leveling because it was just that good.
If you want an idea how good that set bonus was, I pulled 95-99 parses very consistently using that set when by all accounts it should have just been garbage because the Bloodfang set is a raiding set, and tier 0.5 was basically catch up gear with the dungeon set bonuses inverted to where my 6 set shadowcraft bonus, was instead my 4 set Darkmantle. If you were rocking 6 piece Shadowcraft it was good enough even with just “meh” RNG that it wasn’t worth breaking for raid gear until you had your BiS pieces for all those slots in tier 1. However if you were even remotely lucky you would outdamage full t1 BiS players. The only real deciding factor for many was the fact it was a proc, not a constant. High highs, low lows.
Stop with this nonsense about the raid tuning. Nothing about Halondrus was a dps/hps check, it was constant 20 people mechanic checks for the entire fight where 1 mistake = raid wipe.
Mechanics, not throughput.
It’s why he needs mechanically gutted because no raids are going to be able to kill him even with full 278, double legendary, and 4p tier outside of top 10 guilds.
If you don’t have a good counterargument you can just say that. You can’t come up with a good reason as to why a Gladiator needs to heavily outgear casuals and how that lends to a good experience for the game overall.
You do realize Vanilla was the exact same right? You act like this is something new. Each tier in Vanilla I never got certain tier pieces.
Ahhh another poster who wants things handed to them so they can have everything they want within a few weeks and then cry when they have nothing to do.
How about everyone gets full BiS in the mail each tier? Will that work for you? I mean, it is no different then your suggestion wanting to get your BiS just killing a few bosses.
Same argument i made post 1. This isn’t COD. When you succeed you get stronger, when you don’t you don’t. Naturally getting stronger makes succeeding easier.
Your argument is already invalid considering that PvPers are both pointing to WoD as the superior gearing system and SL PvP not being liked. Which one of the main reasons being the Rating gated gear.
“It’S nOt CoD” is a null and void argument when we’ve seen what works and what fails.
That’s a really bad take. Like Blizz level bad. You wanna know what happened when they decided to make PvP gear RNG? We got Legion. One of the most hated expansions for PvP. And I can already hear
“BuT LeGiOn Is SeEn As A gOoD eXpAnSiOn”
While ignoring the fact that having PvP gear come from a vendor wouldn’t have affected PvE players in the slightest. A happy PvE and PvP playerbase? Can’t have that. That would mean more people are playing and enjoying our game and here in WoW we need controversy!
It’s a bad argument. And if your stance was a good one, we wouldn’t even have vendors back in the game after 2 expansions of pushback on a completely idiotic decision.
Content being designed around it and then shafting a significant part of the playerbase in favor of special snowflake raiders by giving them months to earn/get it while mythic+ players get 1 shot a week or be forced to raid also is where the problem is.
How about Blizzard make mythic+ tier sets available at the same time and with different set bonuses aimed at improving you in your chosen content path? I’m perfectly fine if I have to sacrifice a piece of gear for that slot to transform it into a tier piece and relying on luck to get an inferior end of dungeon drop or my 1 and only vault piece while raiders have to get lucky if/when they kill the boss and/or get their own weekly vault shot.
What sucks is being told “nope, raiders are the most special of the special and deserve tier shots more than you”. I remember when the tier set effects were first announced and the “experts” started writing their viewpoints on them and EVERY tank perspective was “it’s a cool effect but clearly better for mythic+. WhAt AbOuT rAiDeRs???” Like it’s just unfathomable for those types that, for once, they aren’t front and center of the devs and that breaks their world.
I, for one, would like Blizzard to let each content stream be more or less equal and let people pick which ones they want to engage in. Raiders shouldn’t need to do mythic+ or PvP, PvPers shouldn’t need to raid or do mythic+, and mythic+ should not need to do any raiding or PvP to be optimal. Let the players choose which progression system they want to play in and stop with any clear bias.
Have you considered the possibility that the situation I am describing is different than the one in Vanilla? You have your tier, then you have your Legendaries, then you have your vault drops that will be pretty much useless if they come for any of those 6 slots. Then also the reforging of your tier, which opens up the RNG of trying for leech or sockets on drops to then be converted to tier if it happens to be for one of the slots you actually can use it for.
These were not Vanilla concerns my poorly spoken friend. I do have a wonder as to why you might think they were?
I wonder why people willingly confabulate what people say because they want to somehow insult them on a video game forum. Some people would say that’s childish, but I think it just shows how well mannered and insightful you really are. Truly, a man of culture and a wellspring of grace.
I think that makes you really cool Bojanglz, even if nobody else does.
LOL You make my arguments for me. Despite what pvpers thought, Legion is STILL considered a great expansion. WAY better received than WOD, the one you were crowing about.
That SHOULD tell you something but you’re stuck in your own echo chamber.
I can see how you’d only think I make the argument for you if you only read what you wanted to instead of what I said. Which was…
Also way to completely miss why WoD was bad. You act as if just because Legion was better received that you shouldn’t even look at the positives and negatives and act on them. Instead you’re suggesting “Lul. Legion was better received. Lets do the same thing and it should be gr8 right?”
Well egg on your face cause both BFA and SL are complete dumpster fires. And again your argument is debunked because if Legion WAS so great, PvPers wouldn’t have been pointing to the WoD system of gearing as superior. Nor would Blizzard have brought back the vendor at all.
^100% this. People crying about not having access to their BIS 4pc tier sets 3 weeks into a patch and can’t faceroll the raid bosses need to look at themselves rather than asking for raid nerfs.
