Stop. adding. garbage. to. this. game

Community General Discussion
181

Artifact weapons were a transparent grind added on top of a preexisting grind that both punished you for doing it and then finger waged at you for not having been there to do it since it was simply turned off.

The only thing that world quests objectively do better than dailies is the fact that you don’t have to pick up or turn them in. Otherwise it’s adding grind mechanics inside of something that is already grindy.

The gear system overhaul was transparently about adding another grind and endlessly dangling a better mcburgerforge out of reach.

Instead of iterating on the garrison and class order hall by just giving you a trans-dimensional plot of land to do with as you please with some mild utility (maybe you have a mail box and some quest givers wander in on occasion) that system was simply dumped without so much as a goodbye. Instead of polishing and iterating on ideas that may have been good with bad implementation (garrisons, island expeditions) everything that isn’t a mechanic that exists to maximize the amount of time players spend with the same content (Mythic+) gets dropped like water off a duck at the end of an expansion.

WoW’s story was at it’s best in Wrath when there was very little story being done. I can’t say exactly why- maybe the writers are awful, maybe they’re being handed off impossible plots by designers who have art school brat syndrome and don’t understand story telling- but the more Blizzard tries to do with WoW’s story the worse it gets to the point that we’re now probably stuck killing a fan favorite character- at the very least opposing her even when many people think Sylvanas didn’t really do anything wrong- because the plot demands it.

PVP is a mess and seemingly no one wants to do anything to fix it even though it’s a major portion of the game. The only epic BG that’s ‘fine’ is Isle of Conquest and purely because it’s the least complicated epic BG- AV now has a horde bias because they whined for something like ten straight years about it, Wintergrasp strongly favors the defender but curiously seems to just always give defense to Horde (out of seven games played since the change I got defense exactly once), and Ashran is absolute trash.

The overabundance of Systems™. Blizzard already has a problem where whatever design flaws are present in a class are rarely fixed till the next expansion- Restoration Druids in Burning Crusade went from being the worst healer at release because they had the same healing as anyone else without the utility to being the absolute best healers because of their insane throughput and simultaneously destroying the arena system- but they then compound it with Systems™.

Whenever they discover a system is despised and unliked…well, too bad. You’re lashed to it for the expansion. Counter intuitively the things that take the most work to implement will be completely evacuated with zero iteration- Garrisons, even in their cut, hackneyed form, famously cost an entire raid tier worth of art assets in terms of dev time- while the things that are hated you’re forced to shack up with because they’re often the things that take the least effort to implement and therefor have the easiest fixes to make them tolerable.

Which sums up WoW’s biggest issue. Anything you’re at risk of having an interest in gets shelved because it takes work. Anything you hate will get the pumpkin spice treatment and brought up to a level where at least you’re not contemplating doing literally anything else.

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182

Good post. I dunno if I agree or disagree, but I am a bit confused on the artifact weapon being a transparent grind on top of a grind. What was the second grind that was not transparent?

183

MMORPG’s are grindy by design.

The problem is when they take that formula, take an element of it- you will always be looking for the next best weapon- and added a grind on top of it- now you have the same weapon, but there’s a resource to upgrade it that you will literally never stop needing and will never, ever need to stop harvesting, up until the end of the expansion when the switch is flipped.

I’m one of those rare people who’s stuck with the game since Classic, so it always irks me whenever Blizzard shoves something in the game that never just reaches a point where it says, “OK, you can stop now.”

184

There is nothing wrong with those. But boy could you have really given a long list of things if you had actually played beta.

185

Yep, ill just say this. Vanilla started with more abilities than WoD, and there was less bloat, more class identity, zero need for squishing, and a better sense of scale and progression into BC and WoTLK. Take WoD to BFA, the same number of expansions, the same amount of time, and note how dramatically worse the progression has been. Note the insane amount of squishing needed over and over. Note how with less starting abilities there is even more bloat, yet also, less Class identity.

The most frustrating thing to me is the current Developers were literally handed a road map to success, and they decided to ignore it and do things no one asked for or ever showed any interest in.

I think borrowed power is a failure. It wasnt needed from Vanilla to Wrath, so theres no reason for it to be needed from WoD to BFA. In fact theres been almost no real class growth, just random changes since WoD, despite having less than Vanilla when starting. The idea of revamping Classes every 3 expansions should be about ideal. You start them over with a solid base, and let them grow for 3 expansions. This would feel dramatically better than restarting every expansion.

The games best changes were to Shadow Priest this expansion and all they did was revert most of the ideas that have plagued Class design since WoD and still it doesnt feel as good as it did in BC, Wrath, Cata or MoP. None of the Classes do. The developers are absolutely clueless and have zero excuse considering they were handed a successful idea and squandered it.

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186

To the original poster:

This can be YOUR last expansion.

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187

I helped a lot of guild mates get their wins for their cloak.

In return, a bunch of guild mates carried me to some Garrosh kills to get my loom weapons.

Good times.

188

I’m just very confused. We got the weapon and we had to grind out AP to make it stronger and unlock abilities. Eventually in a patch one DID max it out, until the next patch when they expanded on the AP. Is that what you are referring to?

189

Classic is what’s garbage. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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190

The problem is that now we’re getting it to the umpteenth degree.

It used to be that gear was your borrowed power, but now instead of something you’re trained to accept from day 1- you’re always looking for better gear- now we have gear, forging, the heart of azeroth, HOA’s 4 customizable traits, and corruptions.

Oh, but all of that just gets turned off at the end of the expansion so don’t get too attached.

191

Classic+ won’t happen, and rts is a dead genre.

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192

Yeah, just like all the T3 Naxx gear replaced by greens in BC. Yep.

So you prefer to have Tier set bonuses that offer no choice whatsoever and those Tier sets focus on one spec of each class? Yeah nope. Never again. ANY hunter that wears Full 8/8 in vanilla is the classic example of why the changes are good, you are just far too narrow minded to see them.

193

this is such an absurdly conceited statement. just stop playing if that’s how you feel.

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194

If Blizzard was smart they’d play into the conceit of re-releasing old blocks of content in sequential fashion before finally hitting, say, WOD or MOP and adopting a hardcore-first mentality towards developing a new take on the content.

RTS is a stagnant genre, big difference. The fundamental problem with RTS games was always that the amount of time it took to make a solid title took longer than your average publisher wants to wait. Blizzard Activision don’t be like that anymore, and EA balked at the idea of waiting four years for a Command and Conquer style title.

But solid RTS titles still move millions of units sold. The problem is, again, success in other genres is quicker, and bigger.

195

Naxx gear would carry you all the way to level 70.

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196

garbage inserted…fun stuff nerfed to dust.
This IS blizzard we’re talking about guy…so this is to be expected.
They give us great leveling…then trash it with unexpected changes and nerf…so…you know…we know who the bosses are here.

197

Nope, replaced via quest rewards and dungeons, the stam was lower, even some greens from manaforge quests were better. I wore it. I remember. The dps was decent, but the actual stam was terrible compared to say, Hellfire citadel drops. I know you are probably going to mention STARS guild, but you weren’t in that guild and nor could you carry your weight on a T3 Illidan kill.

The first quest in Hellfire rewarded a green that had the same spell damage as the Rank 14 weapon. So when you try to explain things like you know them, it’s best you actually know them.

198

Anyone who uses someone’s chosen race as a counter argument has no argument to begin with.

One of your arguments is too many zones and toys? Like really? This is new.

199

So, OP if you love classic keep on playing classic. Some of us are fine with retail.

200

This would be extremely smart. They wouldn’t have to remake new content, they could just release the same content with the principles of Vanilla and BC tied to them. Old stats, old Class design, remove insane difficulty treadmills, remove LFR and LFD.

They would literally just need to release old content and remove things. It would basically be a more in depth version of their pristine server concept with very little dev time needed and I for one would be absolutely happy with it.