Does anyone else feel like stealthing around is too easy now and that takes most of the fun out of it? In bfa its just- run up to something in stealth and you will get the opener.
In classic(not to mention other games) you have to be more thoughtful than that and pay attention to things like where their eyes are pointing and where you think they are about to go. you are not guaranteed an opener just because you have a stealth button
i have felt this way for a while, but classic makes it really glaring. Bottom line is i think our stealth levels are just too strong to make it much fun anymore
I dunno. I am glad that I got to see what it was like in Classic (I started in 3.1, stealth was different by then. My Classic rogue is at the same level as yours) but I still prefer the retail design. Yeah, it’s super forgiving, and yet you can still mess it up sometimes.
Did you play during Legion? Suramar, as a leveling zone leading up to Nighthold, was an amazing playground for stealth classes. Everyone else had to use a disguise but as a rogue you had an added dimension to questing in the zone. And most of the time breaking stealth wasn’t the worst, but some areas were not particularly soloable at first.
yes i played legion and felt the same then. i did the pick pocket quest every week by going to eye of ashara and picking everything in the first area and was done in like 5 mins everytime
stealth is so forgiving now that you will get the opener with zero forethought or counter play. suramar had stealth detecting mobs and that added a little to it but still a far cry from something like well farcry or tenchu.
i know wow is not trying to be like those games, but stealth was actually interesting in vanilla the tbc, i feel its just not now
If you take subterfuge, you get your opener 100% of the time, even if knocked out first.
Big reason I haven’t touched retail since classic is that everything is autopilot easy. I’m not saying classic is hard by any means, but I actually have to pay attention. On retail I’m literally watching YouTube or Twitch on my other monitor and glancing at WoW every few seconds to make sure I’m not in fire.
Took me a bit when going to classic to get back used to going SLOWER in stealth rather than faster lol. And yes, subterfuge…I recall when I first took, got knocked out of stealth and then noticed I should still cheap shot, etc.
Also, just fyi for classic. I found 2 points in Master of Deception is helpful enough.
I never really had that hard of a time. But, I am a Night Elf with that +stealth racial. Plus, now at 60, I put 4 points into Master of Deception and can pretty much walk in-front of mobs without being detected.
Stealth on Retail isn’t actually that different. Basically, the +15 stealth levels you get from Master of Deception was made baseline. That’s really it. That said, you can actually achieve a higher stealth level on Classic. You can get the Darkmantle Boots or Boots of Displacement(which are both no longer acquirable on Retail) that give +8 stealth. On retail, we can just get Nightscape Boots for +5. You can also get the cloak enchant that give +5 stealth, which no longer exists on Retail.
E: I will say, there is one thing that can be considered a bit more difficult. On Retail, mobs with a stealth detection buff have that blue eye above their head. They don’t have that on Classic. So, you do have to look out for those mobs.
Other than the speed, what’s different about stealth now? I played from '04 to '07 and again since last year when BFA came out, and didn’t notice a difference other than being faster in stealth now. (I’ve no interest in seeing for myself on classic. Been there, done that.)
That said, I still love stealth. It’s the main reason I chose rogue back in the day, play it now, and always pick rogues over other classes in games. Being able to pick and choose and escape battles is just… so fantastic, I can’t not have it.
Did my first BGs in 12 years last week to get my essence and had a blast with how survivable I am, pretty much entirely because of stealth. Love it in pve, too. Not having to die sometimes when everyone else does does wonders for my repair and food bills.
i did not mean to make this about bfa vs classic necessarily, but its hard to separate the two i guess
forget classic, in bfa stealth is just too easy and its been like that since about wrath or so. our stealth levels are so high you just run up on stuff and get the opener without even trying. i just dont find that fun, might as well be invincible in stealth too too you have to mess up pretty bad to not get an opener now
I honestly believe it’s just Master of Deception. If you get that, you really shouldn’t notice a huge difference. Detection scales with player level too. A level 120 mob will have the same difficulty detecting a level 120 Rogue on retail as a level 60 mob would detecting a 60 Rogue with 5/5 Master of Deception on classic.
However, I do agree there probably are some other things besides stealth/detection that make it easier. The 10 yard range on Sap and Pick Pocket. Sap not breaking Stealth. No longer having -30% movement speed and stealth + the 15% baseline increase making 120 Rogues move at 115% speed in Stealth. The positional requirements on Stealth abilities being removed. I mean, Subtlety Rogues don’t even need to ever get close. Just Shadowstrike from 25 yards away.
Also, There’s so many times in classic wheres its not even worth stealthing because of mob density or travel time and it has like “Why am I a rogue again?”. I would rather stealth be really useful than to be better turned off on a stealth-ability based class.
i feel like im playing a stealth game now, bfa is just auto pilot
i like that i dont always stealth everywhere too, as combat swords i put thought into it and use it when appropriate. sometimes you dont really need it and it just slows you down, and other times you absolutely need it
Usually not a good thing when the genre is not stealth.
If questing is your entire gameplay then sure I guess.
Also, there are many classes in classic that are autopilot especially considering the limited amount of total classes. Hunter and Warlock most notably. The only thing I had to do was keep soul shards and I was soloing content players considered oh so hard with ease. I had heard horror stories of hogger and how he was so hard and people having death counts to hogger only to solo him with my blueberry… talk about a let down…
Edit: While I didn’t take my rogue too far, I didn’t find leveling it to be challenging or require a stealth game. In fact since stealth was more optional than ever I could play my rogue like a warrior and never stealth for similar results. From there it turned into the same autopilot gameplay. Spam your rotation, interrupt big spells, collect loot.
That’s why there’s 2 different games isn’t there. Revert stealth and retail and the numbers plummet.
questing is not my entire gameplay i wish i could just do bgs and little else, but bfa just isnt fun. the questing in bfa makes me not want to play it
if you are never stealthing as a combat rogue in classic then you are doing it wrong, especially when solo. you are nothing like a warrior thats a common misconception by people that are not any good
funny to hear someone who doesnt even play rogues tell me stealth is fine how it is, then you go on about pet classes being easy in classic. i dont like hunters in locks in classic either
How does one kill a mob wrong lol. It’s questing and your trying to talk about being “good”… imagine. Talking about being good in the most casual part of the game.
I said I didn’t get my rogue far in classic which unless you have multiple rogues is the same case for you. regardless I played a rogue as a main with the current stealth for 6-7 years Good attempt though.
About half or 2/3 of the classes really. Notice how before lock and hunter I said “most notably”. You see, in English, that word combined with a list means that the things on said list are not the entire list but in fact a few of the most noticeable on said list.
The only “skill” in most of the classes is making sure you drink and using basic mana management you should have learned maybe 8-10 years ago. Anyone who thinks that leveling is skillfull is them, themselves unskilled therefore the new “challenge” of leveling makes it feel complicated and like skilled content. Given the average player in retail’s “skill”…I mean…I can’t say I’m surprised. People talking about how they are spam dying in westfall and I’m over here like…but how…how do you manage…
It kills me when people talking about skill in things like leveling when MMOs leveling and world content is intentionally designed to be easy for the average player and vanilla WoW was even considered a casual experience to it’s predecessors so if your calling that hard your basically just saying your far below average at best.
you are taking this thread to be about classic vs bfa and thats really not what i was going for.
i just dont like stealth in bfa anymore. classic is refreshing but not the end all be all to stealth play. i guess people cant get over the comparison and i said up front its about more than that
The very first thing you did was make it about bfa lol. Literally your first line:
Meanwhile my initial post said literally nothing about BFA:
Edit: I strictly talk about stealth feel, how I dont think it’s as useful, dont like it and how classics iteration is best for actual stealth games and the first thing you do is talk about BFA
Good attempt though.