I made peace with RG, although I will mention I would rather it not being a thing alongside CSAA.
I don’t think you quite finished your thought there but I assume you were gonna say Seraph HP cost?
Seraphim to me was always frustrating and felt bad because of the HP cost.
I wouldn’t mind if it came back as an effect or flat out a choice with AW (with no cost) instead of crusade.
I don’t know how they could tie this one to FR though without taking from the basic spells again.
I think if seraphim exist it needs to be as an alternative to wings.
The difference in ST vs AoE dps in ST spec vs AoE spec is too high. Ideally there would never be an aoe spec or single target spec. Just specs for different play styles.
i mean if rg didnt exist, templar strike would be topnotch. now it just feels clunky af because you have so many buttons fighting for rotational dominance.
ya sorry, the hopo cost of seraphim. either you build 5 seraphim, wake, and then pog out or wake seraphim from herald dp then pog out
frankly given that rg exists, seraphim can exist as a new 1min to pair with DT
wings with rg is what shadowdance is to sub rogue, a little spike every 30 seconds. so it can fit if need be
The problem with trying to make any changes to ret is abundantly obvious in this very thread. You have raiders, m+ers, and pvpers all wanting the spec catered to what would be best for them.
If they wanted to eliminate ES they could just up how much FR buffs Final Verdict. Instead of it buffing all spenders by X% it could buff DS by X% and FV by 1.5X%.
For the record- I really like radiant glory. It feels good to use and it ties in well with both hero trees.
Agreed. Same reason I don’t like Templar. It feels like a speedbump in the rotation at the exact moment when it should feel like you’re going wild.
Not quite how it works. ES is only about 5% better than FR on single target. Which is low enough that Blizzard might not even compesate for it. Since that is what Blizzard historically buffs bottom specs by, via aura buffs. But a 5% Aura buff would not fly since that would make our AoE kinda stupid.
If they did compensate for the removal of ES, all of that damage has to be put into Final Verdict since everything else cleaves. But since we would now be using FR on single target, it couldn’t be that big of a buff. Only about ~15-20% or so. It would only be enough to undo the nerf we got late in beta/pre-patch.
I’m surprised when I hear someone say they don’t like Radiant Glory because I think it’s one of the best parts of the xpac. It should of course be viable to play without it, which I assume it’s not. Divine Wrath could be baked into Avenging Wrath: Might and baseline Crusade to help those out.
I agree with everyone who says ES / FV is a sore point of the spec. I’d like to see them merged somehow, but if I had to choose, I’d cut ES. Executioner’s Will and Divine Auxiliary should feel like legitimate final-row talents, while Divine Arbiter and Searing Light should be less of a stark choice between ST / AoE. The final row should be about playstyle. Divine Hammer would fit well here if it were changed in a few ways.
The entire Ret tree is badly designed from a choice standpoint, but I enjoy the way Ret plays too much to get worked up over it. By the way, I think Templar will be insane after the buffs and I’m excited to try it out.
That’s fair. I like the proc because the more finishers you fit into a window — the better that you manage CSAA and Divine Resonance — the higher chance you have of extending Wings. It’s a high point in the rotation for me when that happens, and I don’t think it would be as special if there weren’t this combination of skill + RNG. And honestly, it doesn’t feel that much like RNG when you pound back to back to back Divine Storms.
The one thing I don’t like about the proc is that when you don’t already have Wings up, sometimes it will start you at 4 stacks of Crusade, and other times at 1 stack. The former is probably a bug, but it feels right since the latter doesn’t give you time to do anything.
The thing is, there’s clearly also a counter in there, so there’s RNG but it’s not like you could get back to back proc either.
With Crusade, it makes those 30sec impactful, but the proc feels lacklusters, as you said.
With Might you’d get full benefit but it’s an almost identical uptime on the min as if you took AW:Might with DW, and it does less damage than RG with crusade…
And not by an insignificant margin either.
Might and Crusade are entangled in this weird dance.
Obviously 1min wings feels and is better than 2min crusade but if you put them back on the same CD Crusade will win almost every time.
Might need something else to compete in this scenario.
Light Decree could be something to bring back.
Yea, you kind of feel when you’re close to a proc. One other thing I dislike is that I feel I’m not allowed to spend excess holy power on WoG between m+ pulls because I might waste a proc and activate the internal cooldown. I wish it were spelled out exactly how the proc works, and perhaps it shouldn’t occur at all off out of combat.
But all in all, I really like Radiant Glory, including the proc.
That’s an interesting idea. I don’t have any specific ideas myself. I just think Ret is really fun to play right now in m+, but that our spec tree offers no playstyle choices. Maybe that will be addressed sometime this xpac, or maybe it won’t. If Templar is viable next week, which I think it will be, then I’m about to have a blast playing both hero trees. And I think the upcoming class tree revamp is an improvement, even if there’s a lot to criticize about it.
I have decided to join the ret train. I got out dps tonight by a ret whose weapon was 9 ilv lower than my two 619 weapons. I was lucky to do half of his aoe damage. I could beat him in single target, but mythic + is all about aoe and burst dps.
It’s one of the few specs that feels “modern”, probably owing to the rework it got in Dragonflight.
The devs seem very intent on showing Ret a lot of love. It’s great and all, but it would be nice if other classes got the same attention. It’s a great spec currently and doesn’t need much improvement compared to others.
Gearing my Ret alt and probably gonna make it my main too
