Beastmaster Hunter has been at the bottom of logs the entire SL release so far. Even on single target fights BM struggles to compete. If a class is not good at spread cleave, council fights, and mass cleave, then they should at least be good at single target patchwork type fights. The only time BM was top tier was in BFA with insane amounts of crit from borrowed power. That’s a sign the class doesn’t work mechanically. Mastery and/or Barbed Shot should be buffed. Personally, I would like to see a stacking bleed modifier added to Barbed Shot. It would read something like, Barbed Shot does % damage per stack up to 3 stacks. This adds a little flavor to BM and punishes players that are lazy but also keeps the skill cap to a medium.
That leads me to Flayed Shot with Venthyr. The best AoE covenant choice is also the best single target covenant choice in Wild Spirits? Flayed Shot is 100% single target so therefore it should sim at least 100+ dps higher than AoE covenants. Currently it’s somewhere between 200 to 400 dps less than WS. It’s mind boggling this hasn’t been changed on the PTR. It’s obvious you’re trying to fix it with the new Venthyr lego by giving it an AoE component but that’s not the answer. Either that should’ve been the solution to Flayed Shot and added to the ability or buff the bleed damage to Flayed Shot. The lego will only make it close to equal of WS and NF Hunters still get to use whatever lego they choose. I think the easiest fix would be buff Flayed Shot DoT damage to be higher than the other covenants since it’s single target only and then add the lego if a Venthyr Hunter wants to be more AoE built.
Why are you concerned in any way about the logs of the best players in the world? I’m trying not to be a jerk here but seriously… there’s nothing wrong with BM that if changed will suddenly make you awesome brother. The only people that should be making posts like this should be people milking BM for all its worth and still underperforming next to their peers.
Ok so he’s saying in plain English for u that … Maybe he would like to play another covenant. Maybe that he likes the armor better and its terrible that bliss won’t make it competitive . It’s dumb as duck that night fea is the only choice literally in pve
You shouldn’t have to be the best of the best to have an opinion on balance. Does it mean a whole lot more if you are? Absolutely. There’s other things you can improve on if you aren’t the cream of the crop so to speak. That doesn’t mean balance doesn’t effect them however.
You are entirely incorrect, and any amount of looking at the logs from M+ and raid will show that BM is in a terrible place. They have awful burst, and terrible ST.
Maybe your right and Im just a jerk, I just feel like theres some sort of mass delusion going on here. I rarely if ever meet these guys that represent the log rankings of the best of the best in the world, its completely irrelevant to me.
I didnt say anything to disagree with you, I said that if they fixed BM it wouldnt fix that guys dps. He has more immediate things to worry about like rotation and actually playing end game content instead of waiting for a fix.
The vast majority of players if they are good, should be able to do most everything with any spec. I think there’s a disconnect somewhere here, in that players often see what’s happening at the top and presume they can’t play a certain spec because at the best it’s not being played.
There’s often a lot of nuance as to why that is the case though that is lost on players. For instance, MM is played a lot this tier, but that’s also largely in part due to their damage profile being burst which is great for various fights in CN as well as M+ in general. It further skews the logs as well when the best often play whatever is most optimal, which can make a spec that might only actually be a little behind when played optimally to appear to be further behind (because the best aren’t playing it).
So. Yeah, while I think balance does effect everyone, I think for most content you really should be able to play just about whatever. The average player isn’t cutting edge by any means, and fixing rotations / tightening things up will make a bigger difference. I do think it’s fair for someone to have an opinion on balance, though it’s a tricky conversation to really have. I mean, BM is a great example of that where in PVE it appears as one of the lowest ranked DPS, but in PVP in the hands of really good players it is doing phenomenally well right now.
I have played pretty much every class, and how I gauge the state of BM is by how it performs in game. I am not a top tier player, obsessed with numbers. If it takes me longer to kill things than others and I have quality gear, I have issues with that. If someone can nuke me within one rotation but I have to bend heaven and earth to just leave a dent I have issues with that. I don’t think Blizz gets that, not many players wants to spend hours crunching numbers or farming gear that will become obsolete in the next patch. All that time could be spent on progressing through content, exploring, or pvp. I should not have to be a top tier player with all the amenities to viably contribute to my team or survive an encounter. BM to me is the coolest class in the game, I will play it regardless but sometimes I wonder what’s going on with the Devs. Are they designing the game for the top 30% or the 70% of players that just wanna be able to compete? Or actually find group that will consider them, so, that they can experience the game as well. It’s like they are gate keeping the effectiveness of classes.
BM’s have been at the bottom of the “content representation” charts for months despite the “here and there” 5% buffs to our abilities since March. Sure, I get it, not everyone wants to count numbers, but, they don’t lie, even the most dedicated BM’s know it but players keep pushing through. I’m Venthyr BM Hunter, while Flayed Shot is extremely good for ST, we need better AoE. Soulforge Embers was not the answer and does not assist very much, at all. Some may say it’s the best leggo since sliced bread, but Wild Spirits puts it to shame. I prefer Fang’s leggo instead since it’s passive and the synergy with other BM talents make it more viable unlike SFE, there’s no BM talent synergy.
For 9.1, Wild Spirits is receiving more of a buff while Flayed Shot is pretty much untouchable yet Kill Shot will have “somewhat” of a AoE disperse effect. Will this be viable enough to compete with WS? No. I fear more BM Hunters will “jump ship” to NF because of the damage and “number” output WS has over FS. I will keep on with being Venthyr for the remainder of Shadowlands mainly because I’ve invested WAY too much time and effort as Venthyr to switch covenants. Plus, the 9.1 Venthyr Covenant mounts look pretty sweet. My faith in BM restoration is dwindling ever so slowly, I haven’t totally given up on my BM, but, I think it was during the time of April-May, I switched mains to my Kyrian Fury Warrior which I am enjoying immensely, even at ilvl 210, my Fury Warrior out DPS’s my 217 Hunter by 2k DPS. Kinda sad…anyway, not holding my breath for 9.1 BM Hunter changes. But, Survival Hunters for 9.1…Blizzard, come on, that’s barely a buff if anything.
Your trinkets are about the worst two trinkets you can equip. You have 30% mastery for some reason as BM. Fix your own play before blaming blizz. You said your warrior does 2k dps more? on what? You dont have a single raid kill and havent done above a 12 on your hunter.
Good lord I sincerely hope BM gets buffed bc of the pve population not being happy. It’s already a menace in pvp, people will absolutely lose their minds if it gets buffed and somehow they don’t make it a pve only buff. Fingers crossed. Just picked this guy up after the changes a couple months ago and it’s by far my fav toon / new main for 9.1. Let’s hope and pray together
The problem with BM in PvP is the available comps to be good in PvP. Last I checked, BM has the least number of viable partners to progress through the ladder. There are maybe 3 or 4 comps that allow BM to reach Gladiator ratings. Those potential partners will have an easier time in other comps, which limits the pool available to us.
The result is a lot of really good BM players that can’t climb the ladder, because there aren’t enough appropriate partners. Those that do find good partners then do well and people complain about BM. Then, as the season progresses, nobody wants to lose their rating, so BM have even fewer partners available to climb the ladder.
Most other classes/specs have half a dozen amazing comps, then another half dozen “good enough” comps, then even more “good enough to get the mount” comps. BM has 3 or 4 optimal comps and everything else is pointless.
Ok, I’m sorry, I didn’t know I have to be a “min / max” player to compare characters. My BM says it all, yes, I have 220-223 gear, my Fury Warrior don’t, highest is 216 gear. And yes, on World Bosses, 62 Rares/Elites, my Fury Warrior CAN out DPS my BM Hunter. I’ve pulled 10-12k AoE DPS on my Fury Warrior in M+ and currently sustain 5.5-6k DPS (avg DPS for Fury Warrior is 5.2k DPS sustained, and “max” is 11.4k DPS) over my BM Hunter which does a “solid” 4.5k DPS (4.7k DPS is “average”, while 9.3k DPS is “max” with highest gear obtainable) despite my “two worst trinkets”. I’ve mained my BM Hunter since Cata, I’m sure I know what their DPS looks like compared to underwhelming performance against other classes. Oh what’s that? Shadow Priest tops the DPS charts? Can’t be the gear alone from mediocre gear? No, SP’s have been buffed time and time again. It IS about class balance. Why do you think when BM Hunters at the end of BFA we’re top DPS spec over MM and SURV and let alone pretty much top 5 DPS for ALL content? Now, when Shadowlands hit within a few week, yes, weeks, BM Hunters went from Kings to Peasants to the bottom of the barrel. It didn’t matter what gear you’ve had, it revolves around class balance. Plain and simple, BM Hunters are WEAK and they NEED tuning. Gear alone will not make a class “good”. Look at the current standings for BM Hunter representation in “high M+ keys”, hmm, looks to me they are 14th as -B Tier spec. Oh, and look, CN, 21st place. Surely it’s not about numbers or data that’s pulled from the source? No…can’t be. Gotta be “no, you’re just bad” type of players who have zero clue that gear alone don’t make you “good”. What’s so good about gear when your spells and abilities have been nerf’d to oblivion and enabling your DPS spec to have 0.1% up to 1.2% Representation in SL content? Explain that. Could it be MM is more viable? But, what about gear, again, gotta be MM "gear’ that makes them the better spec right?..do some research instead of pointing out someone’s profile of what they have and haven’t done. Not everyone plays “YOUR” content to get gear. My BM gear is above CN Heroic gear, which drops 213 and 220. I don’t “need” to raid to get high gear. Plus, going from 220 to 223 gear from M+12 to M+15 is only 3 item levels, not enough to make a “huge” difference.
Wild Spirits has a much higher DPS output than Venthyr, maybe some BM’s are NIght Fae which I’m not and do have that DPS “edge” over Venthyr BM Hunters since WS scales higher on the DPS meters than Flayed Shot which is ST. Oh and also, WS is getting “another” buff for 9.1 while the lack luster of Kill Shot get’s a small AoE burst. But, it’s gotta be about gear and raiding I guess. Not class balance.
First of all, WoW is easy mode MMO. There are no hard classes to play. The hardest I’ve played is probably Rogue and even that isn’t particularly difficult.
Secondly, one of the biggest gripes BM hunters have is the lack of utility. They have very few abilities in their rotation and need more. Blizzard gave every class a handful of new baseline abilities coming into Shadowlands, but for BM nearly all of them are just an excuse to attach anima powers in Torghast.
Thirdly, there are easier " brain dead" specs that outperform BM by a large margin, so the idea that having a streamline rotation is intended to be non-viable is laughable.
Feel free to start naming them. Spamming cobra shot/kill command/barbed shot is hands down the most dumbed down rotation of any of the dps I’ve played.
literally in pve
