Squishing levels solves nothing

[Hellicìous-aerie-peak]

There is quite a bit of mentioning level squish will not ‘fix’ the problem but I honestly don’t think those saying that understand what the ‘problem’ is. Yes, there are a lot of levels and yes it doesn’t take long to level grind with heirlooms. The issue that people mention is the lack of rewarding feeling while ‘leveling’. There are other games that cap your actual level but grant bonus’ as you complete quests. One of them being their own Diablo 3 Paragon system. Try looking at it this way especially if you are vet of WoW and have put a lot of time into your character. Currently you level to 120, do WQs, dungeons, raids etc… and gather gear to make you the almighty WoW player. Along comes a noob, who also max levels to 120, does WQs, dungeon, raids etc… but have 70% less time invested in their character as you and they are now an almighty WoW player.
With levels maxed at say 70, and now you get to place points into stats for every ‘Paragon’/‘Champion’ level you achieve not only are you a bit more powerful but also slightly more customized than others. Is it perfect? Maybe not but better than grinding levels and receiving only a pat on the back followed by a triumphant sound when you go up a level.

[Grävemind-exodar]

There is quite a bit of mentioning level squish will not ‘fix’ the problem but I honestly don’t think those saying that understand what the ‘problem’ is. Yes, there are a lot of levels and yes it doesn’t take long to level grind with heirlooms. The issue that people mention is the lack of rewarding feeling while ‘leveling’. There are other games that cap your actual level but grant bonus’ as you complete quests. One of them being their own Diablo 3 Paragon system. Try looking at it this way especially if you are vet of WoW and have put a lot of time into your character. Currently you level to 120, do WQs, dungeons, raids etc… and gather gear to make you the almighty WoW player. Along comes a noob, who also max levels to 120, does WQs, dungeon, raids etc… but have 70% less time invested in their character as you and they are now an almighty WoW player.
With levels maxed at say 70, and now you get to place points into stats for every ‘Paragon’/‘Champion’ level you achieve not only are you a bit more powerful but also slightly more customized than others. Is it perfect? Maybe not but better than grinding levels and receiving only a pat on the back followed by a triumphant sound when you go up a level.

Yeah, but again, it’s like I mentioned earlier. “Progress” means something different to different people. Hearing that SWOOSH of a new level every half hour or so feels extremely rewarding to me. More so than getting a new spell. This is my seventh character, and while it might be because I’m not that great of a player, my rotation really doesn’t change much as I level since I mainly do questing and not instances

[Audrena-dathremar (Audrena)]

meaningful and satisfying

“Pride and accomplishment” come with that package by any chance?

they also need to add the challenge back to open world.

hopefully they increase the time to level while they do the level squish. and readjust the stats to increase difficulty. if i pull 2 npcs in open world, i want to be in the fight for my life again

As I’m getting real tired of saying… you’re playing the wrong game for you.
Classic is THAT WAY -------->>>>

Don’t let the door hit you etc etc.

[Wuzeh-wyrmrest-accord]

The issue that people mention is the lack of rewarding feeling while ‘leveling’.

This is an issue of blizzard’s creation. Most of the abilities we would receive (that would be more than enough, even with 120 levels in mind) were pruned.

With levels maxed at say 70, and now you get to place points into stats for every ‘Paragon’/‘Champion’ level you achieve not only are you a bit more powerful but also slightly more customized than others.

Please, we can barely stand AP, don’t introduce this crap to the game.

[Audrena-dathremar (Audrena)]

I guess what will determine what Blizz does depends on which is more popular among the player base.

Of course it will. That’s why they tried to remove flying, after all

[Svelte-maelstrom]

Please, we can barely stand AP, don’t introduce this crap to the game.

AP is a completely different mechanic than paragon levels or champion point systems, though. AP is irritating because level X unlocks all armor of item level Y, but armor of item level Z requires twice as many AP levels to unlock the same traits you had before.

A paragon/champion system is permanent, like “real” levels are. You gain it, it’s there, you’re done. But it effectively stops the level cap, and gives you more intricate ways to keep improving and personalizing your build even once you’ve hit cap. (Bonus round: it also gives you more reasons to keep going out into the world, doing old quests and content you missed, etc. to gain more experience, and so on.)

It comes with its own host of problems, though, admittedly. ZOS is currently putting a stop to the champion point system in ESO to review/rework/potentially remove it altogether because of the horrible power creep that came along with it.

[Grävemind-exodar]

This does sound interesting! 120 might be a good place to stop the level cap in favor of a system like this for future expansions for sure. But I wouldn’t want them to reduce the current level cap at the same time. Hopefully that makes sense

[Wuzeh-wyrmrest-accord]

AP is a completely different mechanic than paragon levels or champion point systems, though.

It involves excessive grinding, which is the part people don’t like about AP.

[Hellicìous-aerie-peak]

It is a bit complicated for most I understand. Keeping it simple is the what Blizzard has done and for those that have difficulty when given an abundance of choices tend to freak out and lose their mind.

[Svelte-maelstrom]

It involves excessive grinding, which is the part people don’t like about AP.

It involves grinding if you’re determined to hit another hugely-high-up cap, but … well … so does leveling a character from 1-120. Personally, I wouldn’t mind AP so much if I didn’t keep needing to farm more of it just to get back what I lost in attempting to upgrade a piece of gear.

(Edit to add) But with that said, note mostly what I said in the last paragraph of that post you replied to:

It comes with its own host of problems, though, admittedly.

I’m not exactly arguing for its implementation, because ESO has been trying it for ~5 years as an attempt at fixing an old problem from previous iterations, and still can’t get it right.

[Aurael-drakthul (Aurael)]

It needs to happen. There aren’t enough talents and abilities to spread over 120 levels while also providing a reasonable sense of progression. Personally, I think all talents and abilities should be available from level 1.

Progression should be about power level, not a lottery where you have no idea what your class will actually be like to play until you reach cap (and even then until you get median gear.)

[Wuzeh-wyrmrest-accord]

well … so does leveling a character from 1-120.

Not really. We’re talking closer to the island farming that everyone hates, not questing or dungeons.

[Svelte-maelstrom]

Not really. We’re talking closer to the island farming that everyone hates, not questing or dungeons.

But champion/paragon levels don’t require islands to farm, you gain them from doing literally anything that grants you experience, the same as how azerite is also given from queuing for a random LFD – and if that sort of system were implemented, usually it also results in much greater amounts of content being made to grant said experience.

But again, why argue about the specifics of something neither one of us really wants implemented? Lol.

[Snug-moknathal (Snug)]

Well one thing is certain they opened yet another can of worms with talking about the lvling squish. If they go through with it I predict another chunk of sub losses.

[Wuzeh-wyrmrest-accord]

Gotta appeal to that invisible bunch of new players that love bad game design.

[Rankin-shandris (Rankin)]

They aren’t going to invent 130+ levels of new content. A squish is a good idea to take 1-120 as it is now and make it 1-60 and make the overall time to go 1-60 more like 30 hours instead of 60.

If they’re going to adjust the speed of leveling, they can do that independently of a squish.

And they don’t need to invent 130+ levels of content if they speed up leveling.

[Rankin-shandris (Rankin)]

A paragon/champion system is permanent, like “real” levels are. You gain it, it’s there, you’re done. But it effectively stops the level cap, and gives you more intricate ways to keep improving and personalizing your build even once you’ve hit cap. (Bonus round: it also gives you more reasons to keep going out into the world, doing old quests and content you missed, etc. to gain more experience, and so on.)

Champion/Paragon levels are basically the same thing as levels, just with a different numbering system.

So you have what, level 60 and champion 20? How would that be any different from being level 80? It’s like the people who argue for adding a new currency type beyond gold.

[Shamageddon-velen (Shamageddon)]

It’s a one-time adjustment that will come along with a general change in the game. It’ll be easily compensated for by giving the player their shiny new “next expansion” upgrades.

Sure, just like the stat squish. Once they start down this road, it’s constant.

[Svelte-maelstrom]

So you have what, level 60 and champion 20? How would that be any different from being level 80? It’s like the people who argue for adding a new currency type beyond gold.

I mean, I specifically said twice already (or was it three? is this the fourth time? ffs) that I do not want this implemented in WoW, so…

[Turbocharged-area-52 (Turbocharged)]

Looks like pruning is coming back to bite them in the butt.