So as someone looking to try out a new class, I just realized something about shadow priest…
Do they not have a snare besides mind flay?
Isn’t that kinda bad for PVP or is there another way around this?
There’s a conduit that slows after you psychic scream.
not necessarily. Its a 50% slow that’s channeled - so its consistent AND cant be dispelled. Feel like a lot of people forget this. This is also why the slow on psyfiend is very noice.
Shadow… or Priest in general are the primary punching bag in PvP.
Out of the 3 Clothie casters…
- Mage is the king of CC and can kite and snare all day long.
- Warlocks Can spam CC, have teleports, massive damage reduction cooldowns, and use their pet to help control the field be it chasing people when your CC or breaking your CC or keeping others locked down to open windows for counter play.
- Priests or Shadow, since the beginning have just be designed to take hits and outlast long enough to finally be able to react and fight back. Problem is that overtime, the spec has lost these passive defensives and lost the ability to use Holy as a backup or a bait for interrupts to which leads into you just interrupt Shadow and train him into the ground. This was even more exemplified when Voidform redesign became a thing in Legion where once you pop into Voidform (you had no control over when this would happen) you then have access to 2 Abilities (Void Torrent & Void Bolt) that did a lot for you but with 1 cc / interrupt of any kind will ensure your Voidform window ends almost instantly it began before you can actually do anything. It was a nightmare.
I haven’t touched Shadow for PvP since. So I cant say what is happening now, but I would wager… (based on what I have seen at least) that we are still a punching bag and get trained into the ground as we really are not much of a threat because its so easy to counter Shadow.
To answer your question about a snare though… Nope not really. Not anything consistent except Mind Flay, but that roots you as well so its not really effective.
But also roots you. Snares in general are not that effective if it also roots the person doing the snaring.
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Thats like saying do mages and warlocks not have offheals? Isnt that bad for pvp?
Subjective and I disagree.
For one, it rooting he caster has nothing to do with the snare effect. A snare is a snare.
The fact that it’s channeled is nice cause you could just move if you need to and channel it again. There’s pros and cons to everything anyways…
You can also move while channeling it with STM.
If your snaring someone that is trying to run away then it works. If your snaring someone that is coming for you, it’s not going to be that effective.
I was speaking on it from a more defensive standpoint as imo that is what the OP seemed to be referring to.
And yes having the ability to cast Mind Flay while moving with S2M is a thing, it seemed like the question was in terms of a base kit perspective.
No that’s still gonna be effective lol
A snares a snare so depending on other factors it can have just as much defensive capabilities as offensive.
Mindflay is a good of snare as any. Ive actually come to love it as a slow/snare. Esp vs druids lol
I’m not saying it’s useless, I’m saying as a snare, it’s not that effective in that it’s not going to be something you can use to kite.
Frost Bolt is a good snare cause you can can slow for additional time after it landed, Mind Flay snare ends when you stop casting it.
So I stand by what I said, Mind Flay as a defensive snare is not that effective, in fact it can be problematic as it can open you up to be interrupted.
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No one mentioned kiting though, and even if they did that wasnt in the op. Snare can help in other ways besides kiting anyways. Even though you can indeed use it to kite. MC some off a hill them MF to slow them getting back or PS and mf them if they try coming back. There’s definitely plenty of options.
I think they’re both good. I prefer MF if anything though cause I can stop and go with it since it’s channeled. FB can also be dispelled. Pros and cons. As I’ve been saying.
And I stand by what I’ve been saying that there’s options to it and it’s just as good a snare as any other. If someone preferred FB to MF; they can roll a mage.
Didn’t psychic horror use to slow too? I wouldn’t mind that making a return. But as I’ve been saying MF is a vaild snare. Periodt.
I used Frost Bolt to compare a snare vs a snare. A snare that lasts longer then the rooted cast of Mind Flay is simply better at a 1:1 comparison. Out of every snare in the game, most allow you to do something during the snare, with Mind flay, you can’t do anything else, the snare is only a snare while your snaring. As soon as you stop, your snare is non existent. If your goal is to prevent some one from getting to you and smacking your around, Mind Flay does not do this, it’s only a slight delay but will not ever be used to perma kite like some slows/snares have the capability to.
So in essence, Mind Snare as a snare is the weakest in the game. However, it’s not useless.
Horror used to disarm.
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You do damage while you snare and if you talent the pvp talent, will steal haste if you complete the channel. There’s your “do something during”.
Mind flay works as any other snare. its has its pros and cons and snares are not only used when someone is running at you. The example you keep trying to push is your own and was not at all mention in OP nor do I think it was implied. They can state otherwise.
I disagree that MF is the weakest snare in the game, though no one stated it was the best to begin with. The notion of pros and cons to class to specs to the skills they used is prominent in wow and is part of the reason I and other stay coming back. Every snare does not have to work the same and regardless of them doing so a snare is a snare is a snare. No matter how many times you want to spin it.
If OP find FBs and this topic that imperative: Mage awaits them. lol
I’m aware. I thought I recalled it having/gaining a slow effect at some point from something. That’s why I was curious about that specific effect.
What the f are you talking about?
You started this divergence off topic clarification of Mind Flay.
I have since been clarifying in specific detail as to why I made my initial statement that addresses the OP concern.
Your the one that seems to think you have the only valid opinion on Mind Flay.
The doing something part is the ability to run away or cast another spell or anything else. Whatever comes with Mind Flay still forces you to be rooted and open up yourself to be vulnerable for an incoming attack.
How specific you want to drill this down too?
You have your opinion on how well it works and so do I. I love the spell, I am not one of these people that want it out of the rotation or removed or anything. It is a staple spell that dubbed us the face melter spec. But I also recognized its inherent weaknesses.
So chill the f out and stop getting so defensive like holy f lol.
I responded to the OP and you responded to me talking about how not effective of a snare it is because it roots the caster… when that’s just one of its cons but it also has pros. Both should be considered and BOTH matter.
No one asked for this
And yet this is the type of energy I’ve found you have when it comes to any topic you comment on.
I haven’t been the one pushing for people to consider mind flay as a super good or super bad snare, I’ve stated multiple times that everything has pros and cons including MF.
Says you.
Doing something else is doing something else. You are not the op and you do not get to dictate what the OP was talking about. This hole you’ve dung yourself into was because you wanted to keep needlessly moving the goalpost.
You’re the one who continues to dig his own grave so ill leave that up to you.
Indeed I do and its just as valid. If you wanted to persuade someone to your perspective, being rudely insistent is a horrible way of doing so.
As do i. That’s exactly why I keep saying “pros and cons”.
Whos the one throwing about the f’s? Exactly. take your own advice. k thx!
My response to your initial take was an “additional” fact about Mind Flay directed toward to OP.
Your the one that decided to make a big deal about it, not me. So I drilled deeper down into detail as a sidetrack to your response. Then you have the nerve to claim my clarifications was addressing the OP and not taking account that your the one that is continuing the back and force and thus making it about yourself.
Stop picking and choosing as you feel the moment who you think I’m talking to. Pick a lane or just say your peace.
So yea, I was getting irritated that you decided to make it about you and then blame me for misleading the OP about talking about a mage comparison when that was clearly between us at that point.
I only call out people for there BS when they are acting like they are the only ones that have a right to an opinion when they believe is fact, as what you did and why I am not having it and telling you to chill out because your taking it way too personally for what your now admitting too, your not liking what I may have said in another thread about a different topic. So now instead of focusing on the idea/topic at hand, you are focusing on the person.
Basically if you have an issue with a person, you automatically have an issue with the opinion of that person regardless of the context and value.
So yea, I detected that from you and you admitted it.
Congratulations for making an mountain out of a molehill for something completely unrelated.
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Neither are you.
I was providing all the information that I think is valuable. Since the OP was very vague in the questioning, then it’s up to interpretation as to what the specific nature his question was referring to.
I rather post more information compared to less.
So since you didn’t mention the self root con, I mentioned it and expanded on it stating it is a less effective form of a snare to begin with because in addressing your additional facts of it doing damage and other affects from talents (that he didn’t ask for if you want to play that game) that you would never use Mind Flay as a snare if it didn’t do damage from a defensive perspective. You use Mind Flay because it does damage… and it happens to snare. That’s why it’s not a great snare as it’s primary purpose is damage.
You literally replied to me and in that post and in no way indicated what you were saying was to the OP.
I’m not. Just because you think everyone can infer who your talking to and about without indication isn’t my problem. I stated you kept trying to insist and imply on what OP had stated as if they themselves cant clarify and provide more information on what they were talking about.
- I don’t think I’ve made this about me.
- This is another you problem.
- That was “between us”, because of you lol
I thought I had made it about how keeping a neutral perspective is important by considering and talking about all aspects of a skill/feature/thing. Because all of it matters. With all your drivel however, it seems the message was missed lol.
Whot… In the post YOU replied to I didn’t even stated a flat out no to what OP was asking. I said “not necessarily”. If you, someone I’ve witness opinion pushing considers THAT to be opinion pushing then that’s yet another personal problem that you should deal with. On your own time.
I don’t have a issue with you, lol. I’ve just found you to be rudely needlessly insist/pushy and that’s fine; plenty of people are. However, I personally don’t tolerate stuff like that. I don’t get pushed off my points. Periodt.
I admitted that I’ve seen you been needlessly insistent in a rude way and this thread is another tally to that opinion. If I was indeed sternly saying everyone is wrong yada yada that would be one thing, but I always hold a neutral perspective and that’s as valid as any other one.
O no, the praise goes to you. Entirely.
I have not once insisted on what the OP meant or was trying to say. You however, have. Multiple times at that.
Cool. And like I said, all of that stuff was you insisting and bringing your own stuff to the table where as I was going off of the OP period. at face value. Which is fine and fair for me to do.
- As I said, I fine it be be as effective as a snare as any other.
2)my comment on its damage was to you, as indicated. not the op. So even if we played that game you would lose. again. - Someone could use mindflay as and when however. You trying to dictate when and where not does not mean in this reality that everyone abides to your logic and playstyle. I have used MF purely for the snare component before…
It’s purpose serves the caster. Not you.
Significantly less effective than just running away from said person, as you’d be standing still the entire time you’re slowing.
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gonna depend on the situation and a number of factors.
Okay, you got my attention now. Now that I am actually on my PC. Lets really get into this as it seems that’s what your goal is.
For “Emphasis” as its a BIG deal if you think using Mind Flay is a good snare. Typically if you want to snare people, its because you don’t want them to get to you and this simply will not accomplish this. Sure you can have edge cases, but we are speaking in “general” terms because no specifics were mentioned
The heck you did…
This is exactly why you did. You are taking the Mage Frost Bolt Snare example I used for our off tangent discussion and then turned it around and claim I am misleading the OP by trying to convince him to go play a Mage or something.
Wrong again…
This is you bringing up a situation that you use to justify your stance that Mind Flay is the best snare… or as good as any other to be exact. Yet we were not talking about anything other then the “snare” component, you starting adding all these additional factors at play thus making it about you.
You are heavily stating that Mind Flay is as good as any other Snare as a FACT. When in reality, its the weakest one because you root yourself. Name 1 Snare that negatively impacts the user to this or a more extreme manner?
You are clearly make a big deal out of this because of my previous Posts. Meaning you are taking it personally for some reason. So should everyone judge you based on anything you say going forward?
Also,
Why don’t you link the post I made that seems to illustrate my “pushiness” as it were. I would think you would be hard pressed to find such a think, in actuality, I want the exact opposite… I want CHOICES. I have made that clear numerous times. So you are just flat out making up nonsense at this point.
Once again, lets see your receipts. “Rude way” in what manner? Please link the thread. I would find it hard pressed to find anything of substance.
Your the one that cant just accept the fact that the Snare from Mind Flay causes a self root and think that’s not even worth mentioning. Because I added that fact, you get all up in arms instead of just being like… oh yea, that too. or some crap.
You have claimed the OP should go play mage or something based on our back and forth. I am merely giving my perspective on the issues that Mind Flay has be it good or bad. You somehow thinking I’m taking ownership of what his intent is, is just baffling. Again, quote me on where I am telling the OP what he is thinking or his intent. Hard pressed again.
Until you started the back and forth with me which is where I started to notice this tread going off the rails and calling out the BS to put a stop to it, but you wanted to continue so here we are.
In your opinion, fine I guess. But it is objectively not true when compared to other snares ion the game. The self rooting is a BIG red flag in claiming Mind Flay is as good as any other snare in the game.
Exactly, you are adding damage and other affects from PvP talents that have no baring on the “snare” discussion this is supposed to be about… Thus making it about you and taking this off the rails.
I used the word “defensively” specifically.
So do tell, enlighten me… in what situation does using Mind Flay for ZERO damage in a defensive manner make the best use of a GCD?
That’s Offensively. Defensively is for yourself. Offensively is if they are running away from you… WHICH I stated.