I’m looking at the map from Chronicles and struggling to find where the Trolls were attempting to expand. The Trolls basically already controlled most of Azeroth except for pockets of bug people (Nerubians, Mantid, etc).
Then the Night Elves came along after their grandpas and grandmas were changed by the Well of Eternity and began expanding their influence, displacing Trolls along the way to creating that giant empire of theirs.
I mean, there’s also yknow, other races on Azeroth that would have been conquered. It’s not just Elves and Trolls and vast empty gaps with nobody in them between.
This conversation is getting ridiculous. We know with 100% certainty that Zin-Azshari wasn’t the only city in the empire. The notion that it ever was exists only in head-canon and is dependent on manipulating theories regarding the massive distance between the Ruins of Eldarath in Azshara and the Maelstrom.
Two theories dominated the conversation: 1) that the Sundering caused substantial continental restructuring that pushed previous continent centered ruins farther west, or 2) Zin-Azshari spanned from the Well of Eternity West to present day Azshara with little change to continental structure. Both theories are still contested, and it is plausible, though unlikely, that Zin-Azshari is intended to have spanned from the north-west center of old Kalimdor west to present day Azshara, but there is absolutely no indication, official or teased, that suggests Zin-Azshari covered the entire settled realm of the empire. It’s a head-canon, nothing more. Even Blizzard understands that urbanization doesn’t work like that.
Yeah, looking at it again, I can concede that. I can admit when I’m wrong about something.
Oh I wasn’t arguing - I was just adding another point to your post.
http://imgur.com/gallery/luDIsua
Something like this is the maximum of my imagination. Further there will be other cities.
As established in Chronicles and in game lore, Zin-Azshari was not near* the well*. It encircled it, and I quote “there are hints the city may have been incredibly large, stretching hundreds (if not thousands) of miles across the continent”.
Try reading the books as well. Do you think the Trolls just popped into existence on massive plots of land or did they grow their empires as well?
Never said that.
So who is excited for loki?
This is an uncited quote from Wowwiki, that’s not a source.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/816461204310327356/856710417259036732/unknown.png
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/816461204310327356/856710559674925116/unknown.png
Personally if New York city stretched from Manhattan to Anchorage, saying it was “on the shores of the Atlantic” wouldn’t really fit, would it?
Just FYI imperialism committed thousands of years ago by long dead people (mostly against chaotic evil bug monsters) doesn’t justify imperialism against their descendants at all.
The latter directly implies the former. If you believe that Zin-Azshari encompassed every elven ruin except for those in Feralas, then by elimination alone you believe that it encompassed every other settlement, including, Suramar, Shandaral, Lathar’Lazal, Then’Ralore, as well as every unnamed elven ruin, including those in the Eastern Kingdoms. That’s what covered the entire settled realm means. Zin-Azshari spanning for miles doesn’t mean it encompassed the greater part of all claimed night elven territory on the continent.
And what exactly are they trying to prove now? Were the night elves engaged in land conquest?
New York doesn’t encircle the Atlantic. Zin-Azshari apparently encircled the Well and extended for 100’s if not 1000’s of miles according to the text. Your anology falls short.
I think you like that word, use it where you see fit. I disagree with the use of it in the context of elven expansion. But again, the expansion of the Empire is the main plot driver for WC/WoW. Why does this bother you so?
It’s wild how the ruins of Zin-Azshari completely evaporated in just such a way as to make it appear as if it was in fact dozens to hundreds of separate settlements whose ruins still exist and are shaped like cities tho.
Shipper I’m not going to engage with your google translate nonsense so stop bothering. Go pick a fight with some hooligans.
Again “the text” is an uncited blurb on Wowwiki. It’s worthless. It’s not a source.
It doesn’t. None of its real, I don’t care. You however seem very upset at the idea that elves could ever be anything but divine planet-sized city builders with pristine morality who could never conquer anyone.
This quote is uncited piece in the Speculation section on Wowpedia. It is not a reputable source of canon.
Didn’t trolls control most of the world until the night elves rose up and then conquered everything, pushing the trolls back and corralling them into a small area because Azshara couldn’t be bothered to finish the job? How is that not a form of imperialism?
What does Shipper have to do with it? I’m Shernish!
I was on the English Discord once, I didn’t write anything in it, I didn’t even read it. I don’t have to attribute Discord controversies that I didn’t participate in!
Because the beautiful elves did it, and they could never do any wrong, especially not to those nasty trolls (who hypothetically would totally deserve it if something was done to them)
I give you this point. My statement was over reaching and should have been worded more clearly. There are ruins of smaller elven establishments and outposts that were not physically a part of Zin-Azshari the city. I agree.
I’ve not once spoken to the moral authority or lack thereof in regards to elven expansion. I simply take objection to the overused and non-contextual use of the word imperialism earlier in this discussion.
The Last Guardian explicitly says the night elves were capturing other races, including early humans, and using them as laborers to build the empire. If you’re building an empire, regardless, by a standard definition you are imperial. If you’re taking resources from other people (including human resources) to build that empire, you are absolutely imperialistic.