Guys, this conversation is just too intense. We already broke the whole forum once today.
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I think people are putting way too much on Teldrassil and not on the vastness of her crimes.
Do we forget about Gileanas? Stromgarde Keep? Saurfang? Derek Proudmoore? Baine? Thrall?
Or idk, how about Varimathras confirming she was working with the Jailer to break down the Arbiter to feed his Mawsrown armies? All those countless lives that continue to flow into the Maw?
This goes soo much further than one tree.
And, if the datamining is true, why does Sylvanas get to decide that the judgement should come from Tyrande and Tyrande alone…
More than Night Elves have suffered at the hands of Sylvanas, and to let Tyrande be the sole judge of her “punishment.” — That’s just terrible writing…
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They said in an interview that she was trying to break her neck. Anything else is speculation.
People keep misreading this IMO, Elune says “my favored children” it says nothing about her other “children” not being favored, or “the favored children” besides favored=/=favorite in the sense of picking one over the other. It just means that she values them a lot, but that doesn’t mean she cannot value others
Favored as in values most, not that she doesn’t value the others. And even among the Night Elves Tyrande is Elune’s favorite of them, as she has seemingly let another Night Elf Night Warrior die on Azeroth to the power in the past.
But favored doesn’t mean values most, it means is given value or preferred. It says nothing about her other “children” who may also be favored. If you’re using that to say Elune is flawed because she is biased towards Tyrande and not her other NWs, seems a bit of a reach to me. Atleast it doesn’t justify her keeping Sylvanas around just because she wants to save Tyrande who is already slated for death.
At this point Tyrande is saved, so that’s not a reason to keep Sylvanas around.
At this point, Tyrande already made her so- called choice, so we already know she doesn’t get to kill Sylvanas.
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No.
I will not concede that Sylvanas has to be removed from the narrative. Certainly she should not be the focus of the story anymore, just like she never was before Legion. But the idea that the Sylvanas character has to go into hibernation because the writing team messed up Teldrassil 5 years ago is absurd. She is not an Illidan, she is not a Garrosh, she is one of the longest running OG characters in Warcraft’s history next to Jaina and Thrall. There is no Warcraft without Sylvanas.
She’ll make an attonement helping out in the Maw for an expansion and then return to lead the Forsaken again.
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While correct that she has been around for the while, and correct that she is neither an Illidan, nor a Garrosh, you’re incorrect on the difference; she isn’t better than either. She has done worse.
Garrosh killed a city. Illidan enslaved a people. Sylvanas killed a city, but with the intent of sending their souls to Super Hell where their eternal souls would be at best enslaved themselves, at worse turned into weaponry or obliterated. Garrosh’s victims and Illidan’s victims at least got a reprieve in death. Sylvanas tried to not even allow her victims that. And worse; she knew the fate awaiting them. She knew she was serving a Sargeras-like villain. She knew and did it anyway.
And regardless of how terribly written it all is, it’s still canon. Giving Sylvanas a pass, a light punishment, and bringing her back a short time later is saying that villains who have done less were all unjustly punished, that killing enough people to “inflict a wound they can never recover from” is acceptable, to send their souls off to an eternity of punishment is acceptable, that siding with Discount Sargeras is acceptable, and all you have to do is a small amount of cleaning up your mess to make up for it.
Garithos did substantially less. Should he be returned and forgiven?
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You see this is why the Teldrassil burning ruined WoW’s lore forever all that long time ago. Certain personalities will never be able to move beyond it. It doesn’t matter what new lore Blizzard introduces, everything relates back to Teldrassil.
When we talk about redemptions and forgiveness, what we also need to remember is that atonement requires sincerity on the part of the one seeking atonement. Garrosh did not want atonement, he wanted self-satisfaction and aggrandizement.
Sylvanas is seeking atonement in 9.2 which is something we actually have not seen in Warcraft before. When we talk about “redemption arcs” being unearned…this isn’t an unearned redemption arc.
And yes the soul split, even though it doesn’t mean “good Sylvanas” “evil Sylvanas”, does change the facts on the ground. It does require us to see Sylvanas in a new light.
You can not like that story direction which is fine, but the blame ultimately lies with Blizzard choosing to burn Teldrassil to begin with without ever having any idea of where they wanted to take the story after that.
Punishing a character, a voice actress, and a fanbase for a meta story-decision made half-a-decade ago by a now disgraced former dev is shameful.
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Lol the desperate Sylvie fans desperately wanting her back when A: Banshee Queen revealed she thought of her people and the Horde as less than nothing, disposable tools and B: Ranger General has no ties to either the Forsaken or Horde and hasn’t had agency acting with them because her soul split.
Face it, this character is a wreck and needs to leave the plot. Forever. Trying to hold on just drags everything down further and further. She’s completely toxic.
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Anti-Sylvanas types always come back to this when they are proven wrong, again and again and again.
Why are Sylvanas fans desperate? Desperate for what? Desperate for the character we enjoy to stay in the story? Desperate to laugh in the face of people that have been predicting Sylvanas’s permanent death for multiple expansions in a row only to be proven wrong over and over again?
Seriously, what will it take to prove to you that Blizzard LIKES Sylvanas? How about an interview TODAY about Sylvanas?
What will it take?
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I’m happy Dornhiem is unhappy 
That must mean something good for Sylvanas.
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Agreed.
Agreed also, which is why I didn’t say “gone forever” and instead said “gone for a while”. Does it suck that Sylvanas will forever be tarnished because of Teldrassil? Absolutely. But should the entire narrative break itself even further just for her sake?
No.
And just taking a two year break is exactly that; breaking the entire narrative for the sake of just Sylvanas. The Forsaken shouldn’t take her back; she used them, and not even for her own needs, but for Zovaal’s needs. The Horde itself shouldn’t take her back; BfA. That’s it, that’s the reason. And the Alliance shouldn’t allow her to come back without another full blown war because again, BfA, that’s the reason.
And BfA happened not half a decade ago; it ended in 2020. A year and a half ago. And it’s largely still unresolved. Teldrassil burned three and a half years ago. Not a half decade ago; One expansion and a patch. That’s it. And on top of that, the wounds inflicted in-universe and on the playerbase have been ongoing ever since.
This isn’t something from the distant past. This was recent events. This is current events. Teldrassil is still burned. Exploring Kalimdor is still reminding us how nothing got resolved for the injustice inflicted on the night elves, how nothing really got resolved for the Horde and their repeated villain-batting.
And you can choose not to like that same story, which is also fine. I’d hope we both can agree every decision from the moment the image of the burning Teldrassil up to now that Blizzard has made regarding their ongoing story is a big pile of crap that they want to treat like a delicious birthday cake while they serve it to us on plates that haven’t been washed since Afrosalami did that thing he did on them.
But the solution to idiotic, narrative-breaking choices isn’t to double down on idiotic narrative-breaking choices.
Two years of community service should not be the punishment for siding with Necro Thanos to rewrite reality. Whether you were under the influence of a soul-split or not. Again, even Sylvanas agrees what she did was unforgiveable. Again, even Sylvanas agrees that penance is required.
You mention punishing a fanbase. Let’s address that again.
Because either way, a fanbase gets punished. Either you punish those Sylvanas fans who would rather turn a blind eye to the character development…
Or…
You punish those Sylvanas fans who would rather the developers start making their story make sense, AND those fans who liked the night elves, AND those fans of the Honor Horde who watched Sylvanas choke the last gasps of the concept and left it barely clinging on, AND those fans of the Alliance who are sick of watching their narrative get tramples for the sake of Horde Growth Moments, AND those fans who are sick of the same five characters hogging the spotlight and want to see someone else rise into the now-open narrative space, AND those fans who just want a plain, simple story where the mass-murderer gets a bit of punishment.
All because of a story choice that took effect three years ago, caused BfA to happen, caused Shadowlands to happen, and is still causing these problems to happen.
And allowing Sylvanas to get what amounts to a free pass? It keeps that wound fresh. Because all those fans who aren’t “just Sylvanas fans” that I mentioned? They will continue to be punished. Every time Sylvanas shows up in a cutscene in 11.0, that’s the murderer of the elf tree. That’s the murderer of honor. That’s the murderer of Saurfang.
That’s the murderer of Warcraft.
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Blizzard, Steve, and Sylvanas fans are all deluded. The majority of players hate her guts, proven by the mass dislikes every cinematic she is featured in. Her ardent defenders are a vocal, and annoying, minority who are dominated by people who laugh at genocide jokes and think the big breasted undead goth war criminal written by an outed sex pest is fine female representation.
Meanwhile she is despised on every other discord, comment section and forum I’ve visited or seen. She’s like Warcraft’s very own Trump. A topic and personality so toxic it is taboo to talk about. That’s Sylvanas and her fans.
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Have you ever considered that social media is a bubble? Also most Sylvanas fans are on Twitter these days.
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Oh, so you’ve proven me right. The toxic fans of a toxic character are on the web’s most toxic platform.
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I think your perceptions are off a little here. The Tweeter is very toxic, but Discord is a cesspool of the worst.
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I just don’t get it. To be a modern Sylvanas fan you have to not give a crap about the Forsaken, who she abused and used, the Horde, who she thought of as nothing, the Alliance, who she humiliated, the Night Elves, who she mass murdered and the lore itself, because she’s tied to Zovaal.
Basically to be a Sylvanas fan you have to not give a crap about anything else in Warcraft. Just Sylvanas herself. That’s so friggin’ toxic.
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