Making him a robot
Yeah I don’t see how giving a nature faction a tech powered leader tracks with giving an undead faction a holy powered one.
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Well for one, the undead, believe in the light and some still do
Once again you are ignoring that lorderan was the seat of power for the church history is closely tied to forsaken
Yeah and I’m sure some Kaldorei are really into firearms and explosives and laser beams. Those are the exception- not the rule.
And that exception can be interesting. Particularly for the Forsaken. Why would a creature of shadow decide to walk with the Light? Bet they have some interesting reasons to explain this juxtaposition between circumstance, nature and faith.
But Calia is… why would someone who walked in the Light, and was saved and rebirthed by the Light’s agents in the material plane, decide to still walk in the Light?
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Are you kidding me? i would go with the cyborg dude, anything else is better than the crapshow we got.
I get your point if you scroll up im not a fan of blizzard shoehorning calia however my class fantasy was obliterated on bfa, you cant dash with my expectations if i dont have any, cyborg nelf sounds awesome perhaps a different analogy to convey your point?
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A Lighthborne undead should be interesting too but if they made that about as thrilling as laundry I imagine they could manage that with cyborg wizard nelf too.
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Not all forsaken believe in the shadows, its foolish to think that a race of humans who became undead, completely abandoned the light, and even if they did, its even even more dumb to think they would just swap religions instead of just not believing in nothing for a good long time.
No I don’t believe and there is no evidance that the forsaken alll swapped to the cult of forgotten shadows.
If you want something that makes more sense, try the kaldorei going back to magic instead of going to left field.
I have neither the time nor crayons to explain this to you but have a nice day.
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i would say kudos to them for screwing things up so badly if you leave people to wonder how the heck could you fail so hard.
THere is it, I bring up something valid but you dont have anything other than you dont like it
Keep ignoring all the undead that still believe in the light, all the undead who want to go back to the glory days of lorderan, its the only way you can reject calia that hard
Maybe Blizzard could just go all-in on the lightsaken idea and make Calia emotionally incapable of seeing the downside to anything, like a ditzy zombie Princess Peach.
Just have her swaying through a rebuilt Undercity going “Oh I love how the bright greens of the rivers of blight match the floating skulls, and the screams of the damned really add an ambiance that goes so nicely with the decor down here.”
And her forsaken retainers side-eye each other and mouth out “what the HELL is wrong with her” while she daintily crouches down and coos over the fascinating necrosis of flesh occurring in a nearby cockroach.
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The problem surrounding Baine is that he cares about the Horde sort of like a highschool friend, rather than a family.
He’s friendly to the Horde but won’t ever go out of his way for it. He’s quick to forgive, quicker to forget and very timid in actually fighting the opposition.
In contrast to Thrall, who is certainly open to diplomacy, but has proven beyond any shadow of a doubt, that he’s willing to fight and lead when it isn’t an option.
Baine had one chance in the Cataclysm to prove that he’d fight the Alliance when they were attacking in the Barrens and burned down Tarajo. He originally had written dialogue (that was even voiced!) when it was going to be a thing, but they cut it, so, in its place, they made him do what was essentially nothing, and then later in a book say; “Tarajo was a valid military strategy! Free shrugs, man.”.
Like, personal lines have been crossed by the Alliance, and he doesn’t do anything. It’s why I say what I think he needs is a Warlord, someone to do all of the fighting and decision making for him, because he’s just too timid and hasn’t the stuff for leadership.
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when we finally get a potential leader that doesn’t want to continue this pointless eternal war the banshee simps crawl out of the woodwork to come tell us all how she’s bad…
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The adventures of a man who didn’t read anything in the thread at all (twice) and decided he’d post without context anyways.
At least try to follow the discussion and learn why people don’t like her, rather than assume everyone present were just warhawks who wanted to dine on some fine crayola and go push a few siege towers.
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I EMBRACE THE LIGHT!
Later…
WHY! WHY DOES IT BURN ME SO!?!?!
You do understand the light still burns the forsaken and is painful for forsaken priests to use? That’s why we don’t have forsaken paladins because it would be too painful for them to use. Case and point, Sir Zeliek is the only undead paladin that I know of in lore.
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The difference between Baine and Thrall is the context they both were leaders in. Thrall’s time in the Horde has primarily been spent as the leader, he makes the calls. He has power to decide how things go (more or less) regarding the organization. So if the time comes to fight, typically it is a good reason to fight.
Baine, on the other hand, has primarily only been a leader under Garrosh and Sylvanas. Both of them started their respective conflicts. They were both highly aggressive, ruthless Warchiefs. Their wars were marked as both needless and cruel. At the end of the day, Baine (and the Horde at large, really) shouldn’t be backing their plays.
I’m not saying Baine’s presentation has been ideal by any means. He could act more or more readily. But I can’t find myself agreeing with the people who dislike him for these reasons. To me, the harder choice for something like Taraujo is the unpopular opinion that’s right (trying to ease tensions) instead or emotional revenge.
You understand that believing in the light isnt the same as using it right you really think that all the humans that worship the light use it every day? all those human farmers are priests now who can use the light when they want to.
Only one lol, forgetting faol are we
There’s some merit to the argument that ‘what the players want isn’t necessarily what the characters want’. That goes for a lot of playable races - there are Night Elf NPCs who want vengeance but are tired of the fighting, they seem to be passive about their desire for justice in comparison to a playerbase that is chomping at the bit to go after Sylvanas.
The issue with Calia is that we can see in-character examples that demonstrate the Forsaken, as a whole, not needing a light-blessed saviour. Almost all of their new characters are almost cartoonishly cheerful, be that Herbert Gloomburst or Chadwick Paxton, or even going back to Shademaster Kiryn for an example back in MoP - and there are many others in between. The few mopey examples were recent-raised dead like Zelling, but Voss coaches them and seems to get them into a better mindset without the need for Calia.
Moreover, the Forsaken’s trajectory has changed over the years but in general has been kind of triumphal, not degenerative. The Cata-era content for them was a bold, purple-and-silver monument to their new identity. They cheer for Sylvanas and seem fully engaged in the reclamation of Lordaeron on their own terms. It was them who built the gothic villages, bred the spiders, mixed the blight, erected the spiky railings, painted the spooky colours and pet the adorable bats - the text shows them kind of loving their new unlives. Have you seen the Plaguebat we got from the BFA war of thorns? That thing is a M O O D.
Contrary to the original argument, if anything the Forsaken are too into their dark aesthetic, and not just in the playerbase but in the fiction. They’re outright cackling in glee amidst the halloween wonders of their new post-human civilization. And not just the military, those innkeepers are having a blast decorating everything like a Tim Burton movie set, and more power to 'em I say. It’s better than the slow decrepitude of vanilla, and who doesn’t like a monster mash from time to time?
The problem with the argument ‘what the players want isn’t necessarily what the characters want’ is that is begs the question regarding a disconnect between Forsaken characters and Forsaken players. But you can log in and play quest after quest, or visit location after location, and witness the Forsaken very much not in need of a Glowing White Saviour. The issue (the one we’re talking about, anyway) with Calia isn’t that she is a bad solution to the problem of Forsaken depression, the issue is that there really doesn’t seem to be any Forsaken depression to need fixing - and it’s weird that Blizzard is inventing this problem to push a character who seems almost perfectly out of place among her former people. And the concern is that this new ‘can’t-clap-without-disintegrating’ concept crowds out more appropriate and interesting directions for the sub-faction.
EDIT: I’m not against Calia btw, I think she could have a great place among the Forsaken. I don’t like her being thrust to prominence without development, though, and if the Forsaken narratives she champions are to be the new core themes then that would be disappointing. I don’t know if it will go that way but the signs are there and I’d rather discuss it before the fact than complain after.
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Faol isn’t a Paladin.
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