Sure some people ran dungeons faster than others back before that was a thing and sure people got groups together and if they had good synergy they might push through things quickly if everyone was keeping up at a good pace (in leveling dungeons especially). But this rush, rush, rush, get it done fast, have to go now, can’t stop mentality is purely from the mythic+ timer element and people retaining that, feeling well if they have to rush in those overtuned affix tormented runs, they should be able to rush in heroic runs or leveling runs and anyone who can’t keep up is a scrub and needs to be pushed from the game sooner or later or at least pushed to get good.
Just one of the many negative impacts of mythic+ on the overall game experience and culture (along with nerfs to various things purely to prevent their use by people cheesing elements in mythic+ runs to shave 30 seconds off). The game, class design, the whole attitude towards dungeons has been sacrificed on this alter of competition that really doesn’t even matter. They’ve tried to push streaming and get views from people competing on this but it’s always been a failure because no one really wants to watch that and is only continually pushed because it fits the dev’s elitist vision.
Once upon a time in the good days we had devs much the same as now who were elitists, who favored the top end. The difference back in pre-MoP days (challenge modes began in MoP and sadly that was the seed of evil origin for m+) and now is that this attitude was safely siloed to heroic raiding groups and those who cleared first. Bosses had enrage timers but there wasn’t this actual timer on your screen pushing you to beat your previous time. So long as the boss was downed before enrage it didn’t matter. It was a matter of perfecting tactics, easing the burden, and maximizing damage to get onto the next boss and complete the clear in less time for raiders who had it on farm.
By and large back in those days they didn’t nerf class design because someone found a way to use an ability to shave 20 seconds off a heroic raid boss fight. They didn’t bar the use of engineering gliders and parachutes because someone in a raid might use them to skip a single pack of mobs or something. They did and do these things for mythic+ and it hurts those who don’t participate and just are trying to enjoy the game by locking things down in the name of competition.
Blames M+ for something that has been part of the game since its inception
“Won’t anyone think of the noobs”-strawman plea
“Something, something, I blame streaming”-rhetoric
Calling everyone who has even a modicum of an idea of what they are doing an elitist
Wearing some heavily rose-tinted glasses in order to praise tank’n’spank fights (whilst ignoring that the same thing can be said about any encounter in WoW throughout its history)
Completely misrepresenting the issues Blizzard realized as to how some items can be exploited (Saronite Bombs and Goblin Gliders in battlegrounds, etc.)
Its the same old thing every single time whenever folks bring up this dead horse of yours
Nothing of what you said has a basis in reality and stuff like in terms of the different consumables is massively misrepresented in order to just blame random things for the sake of beating the dead horse a bit more
“Speedrunning” ain’t something folks are really doing; folks like to go fast and to push what one can do, and this is something one has been doing since vanilla - the difference is that we can do way more now’a’days than “Oh my gosh! I took on TWO mobs at once!!”
Extrapolate that to dungeons and you get folks who want to finish dungeons faster and faster, add players getting better and classes being more powerful and making more mechanical sense and you get even faster and faster dungeons being completed
Not to mention, as you try to bring up raiding, that it also is the same thing for raiding
As people get better, things go faster and things get easier to do
Welcome to a concept that you were required to do during vanilla if you wanted to get all of your Dire Maul rewards
The benefit doesn’t come from it taking more time to complete content, it comes from being able to experience the content for many. I will never suggest a group intentionally slow down how quickly they pull if the group agrees with the speed, but there are times when a tank is pulling so quickly that many others can’t experience the content because they are running the entire time and/or dead due to the incidental damage along the way.
I mean while leveling my DK last week in Cataclysm timewalking, I got locked out of the last boss fight in Throne of the Tides because the rest of the group sprinted straight through the tunnel to that last boss after completing the second boss and was the only class without any speed boost. I started running as soon as the boss died, was the second one to the teleporter, and didn’t deactive autorun the entire way. Yet I still couldn’t get to the boss room before the tank had started the boss RP with all the mobs in the tunnel in tow before the gate closed. There was literally nothing I could have done differently yet I had to watch that last boss fight because the tank couldn’t be bothered to wait the 15 seconds because of being on a class without a speed boost. And the real kicker is that my not being there cost them more than those 15 seconds; it would have been faster for them to wait.
Yes, this is one specific example where both class and dungeon design played a significant role. But it’s still a crappy experience for the person who got left behind all because tanks can survive pulling all trash mobs onto the next boss regardless how many of their teammates make it there alive.
People keep saying this but the blame is misplaced. Players were speedrunning dungeons as long as the game has existed. The times players weren’t speedrunning were when the mechanics and skill level players had did not allow them to do so.
For players who want to rush the first time they see a dungeon I might buy this argument. When I’m in a dungeon for the 60th time, the new car smell is long gone and I am simply looking for efficiency.
You can find threads on this issue going back to the second day after the launch of Dragonflight. I honestly am not that bothered by a mythic raid geared tank being able to survive the entire dungeon in a single pull in the current season. It was real annoying trying to gear my priest for keys in M0s in week 2 of the expansion and having tanks who hit max level 45 seconds before joining my queue with gear that was on average 40 item levels below what the dungeon dropped being able to survive pulling all mobs from one boss to the next while the rest of the group got slaughtered at those gear levels.
As we’ve generally been talking about max level dungeons, yes. I’d agree that leveling dungeons should be more chill for new players, but idk how you’d manage that without a separate queue or artificial gates .
Who’s specific preferred pace gets to be considered the healthy medium though?
Yeah, not even close to a significant sample. And how many of those hundreds did you actually interview to learn that they don’t even like the content and only do it for rewards?
Personally, I am not talking about M+. I didn’t think that was what the OP was alluding to, because generally speaking tanks won’t pull everything until the boss. If we are talking M+ then yes, speed has to be a factor. That goes without saying.
I’m strictly speaking on leveling dungeons and their potential to be a cesspool with overzealous pulls to get the dungeon done in three minutes.
You just nailed the source of the problem and its called Mythic Plus… When Blizzard introduced MPlus with timers and kill tallies they essnetially doomed dungeon runners to the “Go fast Bro” future…
People will say a lot of things but what it comes down to is this, If the general community perceives Myhtic Plus as Cool/Elite/Fudderwhacken then folks will begin to mimic the behaviour all the time…
Nobody cares about having fun anymore, spending time talking to your group mates, commucating, strategy…nope. Entire generations brainwashed to the idea of conflating work with worth aka “put in the work bro”.
So can I expect you to scour all threads everywhere and start clinging to me or can you just stop and agree to disagree with atleast one person on the forums…Please do it for me Johnny.
If you identify with my statement then it’s not an insult its a truth. Seriously man I don’t mind if people respond to what I say but it gets a bit wierd when I can pretty much assume you will respond to pretty much anything I post…
Ask yourself this… Why not just post your own comment rather than trying to run a reply counter offensive?
Your obsessed man… You replied to me first trashing my comment and then I fired back. I guess add ignore is the only way even though I prefer not to go that route generally but you seem kind of unhealthy dude. Goodbye.
No! YOU MUST pull the entire dungeon including bosses at once! We MUST be done with this dungeon in the next 5 seconds so Kyle can go take is diarrea to the bathroom!
This was after you stated about me and others like me… I am sorry if you feel that your comment was “trashed” because I had the audacity to disagree with you.
I was letting you know that I do have fun. I regularly communicate with group mates, strategy, etc.
I was letting you know that you dont have the monopoly on what is or is not fun.
