I sincerely do not know what you mean here.
Could you expand on it? I am not being sarcastic or anything. I am just unsure of what you mean.
The reasons why players are always go, go , go is that they don’t really want to enjoy the game.
They just want the reward and don’t care about what lengths they have to go to get it, be it using cookie cutter builds, bloated high ilvl groups, eliminating anything or everything that could constrain a players time through wipes like going the wrong way, pulling too mobs or not enough etc.
If we want to see less toxicity then the way we get upgrades has to change otherwise will be permanently stuck in this hell of meta, until hardcore players ruin what’s left of the games fun.
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Disagree. Thats a huge a huge assumption.
If this was true, that would mean that people doing M+21 would go slow. And not fast. Because there is no gear upgrade/reward. They would not play M+ at all after +20.
But since they do, while still playing in a timely manner…that must mean they are enjoying the game and they are not only there for gear upgrades.
The only way to remove all this “toxicity” you are complaining about is to make every single aspect of the game trivial and all trivial aspects reward BIS gear. To absolutely get rid of anything challenging and drive 1/2 the playerbase away. And ultimately shut down WoW. Because the people who want zero challenge (which is what is required to remove this so called toxicity) are not enough to sustain WoW.
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You three are entirely identical in terms of your mistake, although in slightly different ways:
- The OP of this thread is clearly a troll when they haven’t responded at all and posted on a classic account alt
- Then we have someone going “It was better back in the olden days” … mate, this started in vanilla - the difference is that we viewed a BRD run taking 1-2 hours as “fast” and a 2-3 hour “still reasonable”
People grew up and started to value their time differently due to having more and more responsibilities in terms of studying, work, and relationships - so change those numbers from several hours for a single endgame dungeon to a difference between 20 minutes to an hour - And “I am going to blame M+ for a behaviour that’s been around since the game’s inception”; mate, if folks didn’t want to rush through dungeons folks wouldn’t do it en’masse and would’ve been doing it since the days of vanilla Deadmines
You three all identify why this is a dead horse ya’ll refuse to stop beating; because some of you are trolls, some of you have fluorescently pink glasses, and others just lie and use bad faith talking points
Stop it
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lol you can’t sustain the game the other way either.
We can’t see everything behind the scenes but there’s enough changes to hint that this game isn’t keeping people around.
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WoW is nearly 20 years old.
I think we can safely say that it has been sustained with the use of challenging content.
And deleting most difficulties is not something that has any evidence of even potentially working.
We do know it will drive a ton of people away. We have no evidence that people will flock to WoW to replace them if you specifically aim to make every aspect of the game trivial.
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Burn it with felfire
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Would love to see the extensive research you did to actually get enough player feedback to make this statement.
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Honestly, all this is doing is limiting the number of people who want to play as a healer IMO. It gets old chasing people. Much easier to just play DPS and do Rotation A for single target or Rotation B for multi target.
How about this put objective in the game that isnt about rust that awards exp and gold…lots of gold.
You must be talking about pre-end game instances?
Honestly, thats just leveling / exp grind content. People typically want to get dungeons done asap. Thats why they are there in the first place, they feel grinding dungeons is the fastest way to grind – and thus speedrunning this content. I understand the culture behind this.
Also too… there is mythic plus which is literally pretty much speed runs and techy time saves are performed at the highest level… and alot of dungeons you play while leveling were at one time part of a mythic plus rotation so theres that too.
M+ design doesn’t cause people to group up 8 pulls and a boss.
Character power does.
When do people pull the whole instance? When they vastly out gear it and/or their base toolkit let’s them muscle through it.
In vanilla we had weak classes, weak and sparse gear, inexperienced players and so we cc’d things while poorly executing our rotations and keyboard turning.
By wotlk the specs were much stronger, more of them were viable, dks were insane, gear was plentiful and players were getting better.
In cata they reduced player power via healers and pugs had a meltdown because they couldn’t do wotlk pulls anymore.
In mop we saw stronger specs and tanks were going nutty with vengeance so when it came to challenge modes even with reduced gear we were still overpowering it
So on and so forth. Looking at today you have people doing like +34s in the same gear some people are doing +20s despite the difficulty being worlds apart. What you will notice though is that despite character power being through the roof (self sufficient tanks, beefy dps, etc) if players are running content at their skill level the pulls are way more sensible and it’s only when players are running content way below their skill level that they do ridiculous pulls.
Also, last I remember seeing in classic it was all about paying a max level mage or prot Paladin to solo the instance while the rest of the group sat there holding their junk waiting. Guess players there don’t want slow crawls either anymore.
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Sure, but now you’re making the assumption that everyone playing the dungeon has done so before or that they’re all experienced with WoW. Obviously not everyone has played before.
Personally the speed doesn’t usually bother me, unless the tank isn’t great and ends up getting killed and letting the waves of enemies go after everyone else. I’ll take the quick experience and queue again.
For others, that’s not the case. I don’t think a healthy medium is something that’s that unreasonable.
Yup, me included.
When I tank, the first few pulls of a dungeon will give me an idea what the group is capable of. If the healer is struggling, I slow down (that’s all I really care about). DPS, I let them do their own thing, if they run ahead and pull, then get themselves killed, no skin of my back. I’ll gather up the mobs and go from there.
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I understand the argument, I really do, nothing annoys me more than when a tank pulls more than they can handle, but at the same time it’s super frustrating when all my cds are up and the tank keeps pulling small, I never really know when to send it at that point.
Apple bottom jeans and crocs with the spurs
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Well I went to a convention recently and saw about…12-20 people sitting down to watch someone speed run a game live early in the morning.
While several hundred odd people lined up for the convention to start.
It may not be extensive research but I can see where the money is flowing towards more.
Blizz should add more mechanics like this and mobs that do damage based on your health, that would make it harder to outgear the content.
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Speed running has been a thing in gaming since before Super Mario Bothers. Was a thing in classic and vanilla for leveling dungeons.
But I think this is mostly a complaint for very low keys and normal and heroic.
And the problem there is power creep, how tanks are designed, and being at the end of a tier.
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