Do you even realize you’re acting the same GD way here?
Your lack of empathy doesn’t surprise me, this is pretty typical behavior of elitist gamers.
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I have already explained why it’s pointless to try to get people like you to understand something they don’t initially agree with. I’m not going to sit here going back and forth with somebody that started the conversation with a closed mind, because I understand it’s impossible to fill a cup which is already full.
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Hey why bother thinking when you could regurgitate disingenuous, bad faith arguments instead?!
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Lmao you can’t be serious. The irony is so palpable you could cut it with a knife.
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Trying to reason with biased people is impossible.
At the end of the day, they’re kind of a miserable person, because they’re forcing themselves into playing content they don’t enjoy.
There are options to bypass leveling dungeons all together, but I’m sure they think questing is boring too.
This is one of my main issues with retail WoW, the game has been skewed towards these min max endgame player types, almost all the content is designed with this type of player in mind now.
Leveling has to be fast, not offer any resistance, leveling dungeons have to be fast so they can spam them as fast as possible because it offers the best XP per hour. They have to min max every single aspect of the game.
They’re not here for the story, to get immerse in the virtual world at all, and this why retail WoW feels like this boring Diablo 3 clone now.
I think Blizzard is kind of in panic mode right now, this seasonal ARPG model, with emphasis on blasting through everything as fast as possible they have been trying to force into WoW has been failing them for some time, its not retaining players, and it sure is heck not retaining new players.
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Absolutely. I’m a “go go go” guy but I understand that plenty of people are too passive to say anything or don’t want to get kicked or decide it’s not worth the fight and they just begrudgingly sprint along to get out of the dungeon as fast as possible without a deserter debuff.
Many people are so “go go go” and have their head lodged so deeply in their intestinal tract that they’re incapable of seeing anything from somebody else’s perspective, like that guy.
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I would love to organize something like this, but without Blizzard it would fail. There are two things only Blizzard can provide: Incentive and Protection. We need to incentivize more skilled players to guide upcoming players and we need to discourage trolls and griefers.
I am currently writing up a design for a queue that Blizzard can easily implement with a couple weeks of development time including incentive and protections, but it’s not done yet. I’ll post it when I am done writing.
I also have to recognize and appreciate that your reply here is a positive and constructive idea even though you and I are on the opposing sides of the LFG comfort zone. Thank you.
This view ^
It makes me sad, very sad, missing the whole point of MMO’s and the community & just by me making this point, I am going to be flamed.
Shamwow just made a good point
Which is why I am now wondering if I will ever step into a dungeon again with any pugs.
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Yeah yeah yeah. Don’t pretend like you ever took your time and immersed in the game lore or atmosphere.
The main thing I get here is a vocal minority want to stop the majority from playing the game how they like.
That if you don’t play slow, etc…you are absolutely wrong and a bad person
Completely open game to make up whatever you want about a person not going slow. While taking zero personal responsibility on the matter.
This is where I disagree. There are MULTIPLE communities for people new to raiding and to M+ that exist. They are run by skilled players who take it upon themselves to help out people learn to raid and do M+. There was no incentive needed from Blizzard at all. If there’s demand, people will come.
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Thats why I always queue as a tank, with a healer in my guild. If the DPS doesnt like the pace, they either get kicked, dont get healed, and I wont pull off of them if they pull for me, so they can spend the entirety of the dungeon dying and being left behind because of their choices.
It’s because, as you well know, none of these players are honest actors. They don’t want dungeons to go slow they want them to go at whatever pace they want.
They will almost certainly be the first people to initiate a vote kick if a person is lagging behind, mining and node, or taking in the scenes. These players feel that the way they play the game is superior.
In other words, they are miserable little barnacles that offer nothing of value to this game or community.
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And that’s your right to do so. If those players want to play differently, the same advice goes for them. If any player wants to get a specific gameplay pace, they should stop PUGing entirely because PUGing by its very definition will result in random outcomes.
So, the vast majority of the player population… got it.
Forming your own group is a solid solution here. But let’s be real, you’re not going to learn much in timewalking dungeons anyway. Enemies die too quickly for meaningful experience, and that has nothing to do with player pacing. When a boss drops in under six seconds, what exactly are you learning?
This is a strawman argument, because it assumes that players who prefer fast runs should be the ones making special accommodations, rather than those who want a different experience. The reality is that the majority of the player base prefers efficiency in LFG, so it makes more sense for those who want a slower experience to seek out like-minded players rather than expecting the majority to change their behavior.
Because LFG is the most efficient way to level up quickly. The system is designed for convenience and speed, not for immersive, slow paced dungeon runs. Expecting random players to cater to a specific playstyle goes against the purpose of the tool.
Another strawman, because it implies that fast players are somehow at fault for not forming their own groups when, in reality, they are using the matchmaking system exactly as intended. If anything, the players who want a slower pace should be the ones forming pre made groups since their preference is the outlier.
This is both a strawman and an irrelevant argument. It misrepresents the position of fast leveling players by reducing their enjoyment to a simplistic “number go up” mindset while ignoring that leveling efficiently and optimizing gameplay is its own form of engagement. Also, it’s not the players’ fault if the game is designed to favor fast runs, it’s just the reality of how the content is structured.
That’s simply incorrect. Players don’t rely on LFG for gearing once they hit level 80, outside of the five weekly timewalking dungeons. The main use of LFG is to level efficiently, not to farm gear at max level. The real depth of the game begins at 80, which is why players aim to get there quickly.
This is a case of a vocal minority making a lot of noise. Many of the people arguing this point are likely forum alts inflating the discussion. More importantly, this isn’t an actual issue because the game already provides tools for players to curate their experience.
Want a slower, more deliberate dungeon run? Here’s how you make it happen…
1- Form your own like-minded group.
2- Use the vote-to-kick system if someone’s rushing ahead.
3- Find a community or guild that aligns with your playstyle.
At the end of the day, the majority of the player base wants to go fast in timewalking. Why should the majority have to bend to the minority?
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This already exists. It’s called make your own group with like-minded people and queue up together.
What so many of us are trying to point out is that it is an exceptionally entitled attitude to assume that everyone in your randomly assembled group has this shard desire. The only shared desire you can assume when you join a group is everyone wants to finish the dungeon.
If you want to take your time in a dungeon, no one is going to stop you, but you cannot force your preferred play-style on 4 other people.
My last replies have been wordy so I feel people have missed the main point: I am advocating for something LIKE LFG available as an alternative that will allow players automated cross-realm matchmaking with like-minded people who do not want to share instances with Go-Go-Go players. Why should the automated matchmaking be the exclusive privilege of one play style? This will not replace current LFG.
I wrote up an example and put it in a new thread.
a looooong looong time ago back when i was fresh at the game… but ive seen the same 5 mans 10,0000 times over 20 years at this point i want to mum rush through them
There is a lot of survivorship bias among the current WoW player base. They think that all MMO players are like them, because they are surrounded by these go go go players, and meta slaves.
I think you and the other players calling people selfish and whatever names you pulled out of your butt are missing the point.
I don’t think this problem can be fixed by the community either, and this problem is really an issue of class kits just being so overpowered compared to the content. The scaling in dungeons is horrible, and player power is off the charts. So of course most players are going to abuse this power, and not give a rats butt about other players experience.
I don’t get why the ARPG speed runner type of gamer gets to be the norm in WoW these days?
This only happened because of neglect. Sure, people would speed run in Wrath, but you couldn’t pull half the dungeon on top of yourself like you can now.
At the end of the day, this really isn’t a fun dungeon experience for anyone. Vet players are bored with this content and just using it to get max XP/hour for their alts, and new players aren’t getting a real dungeon experience.
Perhaps the best answer is for Blizzard to have separate queues, or incentivize veteran players to use other forms of content to level quickly.
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What is the “real dungeon” experience?