Spec DPS Imbalance Numbers for All Specs (80th Percentile)

Community General Discussion
1

Trying to bring some attention to this.

The current DPS Performance gap between different specs of the same class is invalidating many specs in group content. The differences are extreme, and they affect almost every multi-DPS class. In many cases, difference are so wide, spec-choice is essentially lost.

I pulled these from NORMAL Nathria (80%) to get the biggest sample size possible, and to exclude unusually high parses. However, every parse I’ve looked at is consistent with these. In other words, I’m not cherry-picking numbers.

Class Spec 80% % BiS Same Class
Warlock Affliction 3,650.66 –
Warlock Demonology 3,132.22 -14.2%
Warlock Destruction 3,058.30 -16.2%
-
Death Knight Unholy 3,574.69 –
Death Knight Frost 3,128.51 -12.5%
-
Druid Balance 3,632.87 –
Druid Feral 3,445.15 -5.2%
-
Hunter Marksmanship 3,543.76 –
Hunter Beast Mastery 3,150.94 -11.1%
Hunter Survival 3,110.58 -12.2%
-
Mage Fire 3,468.97 –
Mage Arcane 2,971.61 -14.3%
Mage Frost 2,931.87 -15.5%
-
Rogue Outlaw 3,491.26 –
Rogue Subtlety 3,359.29 -3.8%
Rogue Assassination 2,883.93 -17.4%
-
Shaman Elemental 3,323.93 –
Shaman Enhancement 3,266.46 -1.7%
-
Warrior Arms 3,257.51
Warrior Fury 2,977.44 -8.6%

Even though this post is not about overall DPS of classes, I’m including those numbers as well:

Class Spec 80% % Overall
Warlock Affliction 3,650.66 –
Druid Balance 3,632.87 -0.49%
Priest Shadow 3,583.81 -1.83%
Death Knight Unholy 3,574.69 -2.08%
Hunter Marksmanship 3,543.76 -2.93%
Rogue Outlaw 3,491.26 -4.37%
Mage Fire 3,468.97 -4.98%
Druid Feral 3,445.15 -5.63%
Rogue Subtlety 3,359.29 -7.98%
Shaman Elemental 3,323.93 -8.95%
Shaman Enhancement 3,266.46 -10.52%
Warrior Arms 3,257.51 -10.77%
Monk Windwalker 3,257.49 -10.77%
Paladin Retribution 3,204.91 -12.21%
Demon Hunter Havoc 3,157.40 -13.51%
Hunter Beast Mastery 3,150.94 -13.69%
Warlock Demonology 3,132.22 -14.20%
Death Knight Frost 3,128.51 -14.30%
Hunter Survival 3,110.58 -14.79%
Warlock Destruction 3,058.30 -16.23%
Warrior Fury 2,977.44 -18.44%
Mage Arcane 2,971.61 -18.60%
Mage Frost 2,931.87 -19.69%
Rogue Assassination 2,883.93 -21.00%

Edit:

I feel like I need to reiterate that I’m not cherry-picking numbers. I’ve looked at the actual log statistics using many different parameters (item levels, individual boss fights, different content difficulties, etc). The statistics generally support the original tables in this post.

Including every possible combination of variables is a job for a database.

This post was meant to provide a general idea of class balance without getting overly technical. I can’t satisfy every “you didn’t account for this” question in a forum post, but this would be a good place to post your contradictory statistics.

By the way, since this seems to be one of the bigger sticking points, here are a few more statistics.

Comparison of Normal and Heroic Parses:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/spec-dps-imbalance-numbers-for-all-specs-80th-percentile/798859/68

Individual Boss Fights from a Hunter’s Perspective:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/bm-is-just-plain-sad/767046/76

If you have contradictory statistics, please post them below.

47 Likes
2

Its almost as if adding another layer of complexity that needed to be tuned for each class has resulted in balance being terrible.

Gee, I wonder who could have saw this coming?

63 Likes
3

Looks pretty balanced to me.

11 Likes
4

Not sure why people live and die by these charts. Look back a month ago and Feral was listed as one of the worst specs in the game along with Havoc DH, Survival hunter and WW monk. Now they are closer to the middle of the pack and every list I see has different rankings that change weekly.
It’s seriously gotten out of control when you’re in a +2 key and the group is making fun of a Hunter for being BM because some stupid list ranked them below marksman so no one is allowed to play it anymore. BS

16 Likes
5

BLizz can’t math.

2 Likes
6

It’s funny because once the nerfs start coming in, people will be coming here to complain about it. Some specs with certain covenants are overtuned & nerfs will be coming. Now as a frost DK do I expect to get a slight damage increase? Nope, not at all. I expect to remain completely reliant on CD’s which is starting to get old, but I have to deal with it because I just find unholy so boring.

2 Likes
7

Very true, and personally I think Frost could use a small damage buff. I feel bad for Blizzard trying to tune classes though. It has to be such a headache to try and dial a spec in while also having to consider the skill gap of the player base and the outcome the tuning would have on various ilvls.

2 Likes
8

Convinced that they can’t balance any of this w/o gutting covenants and conduits and legendary powers.

Too many exponentially expanding variables. I’ve seen Havoc DH, for example, pulling anywhere between 1.5k and 6.9k depending on covenant ability, conduits, ilvl, and particular legendary.

How do you balance something like that?

9

I like how 5 of the specs in the bottom 6 are pure dps classes rofl

10 Likes
10

Nerf Demon hunter :rage:

8 Likes
11

Thats how the current devs operate. If you have multiple dps specs, the weak one(s) will stay trash for the entire expac as long as the other(s) are performing acceptably.

7 Likes
12

Now you know that’s not even remotely where I was going with my example.

Shame on you.

The question is still valid. How does anyone balance a class across multiple power systems where the spread of DPS, just within the class itself, can be 5k+…not even taking into account the other classes?

The current systems are basically the same as BFA was at the beginning and they ended up having to beat that with a bat until mush achieved…then promptly added corruptions (eyeroll).

Now that the “race” is done, expect major shifts. And a lot of very unhappy people.

3 Likes
13

That’s the thing.

If I need to play MM, I will play MM.

Can I switch? Should I switch? I don’t have any idea.

Blizzard has made certain that changing specs is penalized heavily through Legendaries, Conduits, and Covenants. It’s not just a gold or grind cost either. It’s time-gated (ie. Soul Ash).

I’m sitting on a ton of Soul Ash because I don’t know what to expect.

Blizzard has been silent on this. It’s fair to assume they will try to balance the specs now, but there has been zero official feedback about it.

Blizzard has a responsibility to tell us what their intentions are given that they created the penalties for switching specs. We can’t make Meaningful choices without information. All we can do is gamble.

20 Likes
14

Yeah I feel that. Sub is better but feels terrible to me, so I’d rather be bottom of the pile (and still beat better specs in LFR for DPS somehow) than play such an ugly spec.

2 Likes
15

Just parse 99%, problem solved.

1 Like
16

Seems to me there’s simply too many damn specs, 24 DPS specs to balance around raiding and PvP + covenants. I think Blizzard has just given up and instead plays musical chairs where 2/3 of the specs are either good in raiding, pvp or both, and the other 1/3 are going to be sub optimal in all aspects of the game.

4 Likes
17

You’re missing my point.

In an ideal world, they would balance all the specs, but they really just need to balance the specs within each class. Until they perform that basic level of balancing, people aren’t going to have spec choice.

Right now, it feels like we lost 2/3 of the available DPS specs. They are so poorly tuned, they are becoming unplayable in most Raid and M+ content.

5 Likes
18

Nice data. Seriously.

Here is the GM of Limit talking about class balance and comps for Castle. Bottom line is that there are some real stinker classes and specs and if you rolled one, you’re playing a 2nd class version of the game. Good luck pugging.

2 Likes
19

I agree nerf frost mages assassination rogues

Jk

Buff frost.

1 Like
20

Dh got a buff, it’s as if the buffs helped.

1 Like