Wait, when did warlocks get the ability to wear plate? I must have missed this.
Cloth has even less stamina than leather on it.
Druids can easily hit over 5k health versus my 2500-2750 health warlock. Only time a warlock is over 3k is if they have a priest AND blood pact, which is not always the case.
Don’t tell others to “sit down” when you clearly have no clue what you are talking about.
Sure I am. The Value is I’m not causing problems for my Raid.
Lol what game are you playing mate. It clearly aint SoD.
Lock is bottom of the barrel for HP, which is fine as SL can smooth big spikes.
This is a high Warlock parse prioritizing DPS over survival
https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fRZPMnX1jK32Wztk#fight=20&type=resources&source=2
A 1016 damage hit takes him from 100% to 68.0%, which means he has 3,175 Health at full. His buffs are Blood Pact, Fort, Lion, and Mark for health. Several pieces of gear he’s using have zero points of Stamina, and he doesn’t have any points in Demonic Embrace.
This is a high Druid parse prioritizing DPS over survival
https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Q2L9x7NFbmhJkpvC#fight=33&type=resources&source=25
A 608 damage hit takes him from 100% to 85.0%, which means he has 4,053 Health at full. His buffs are Commanding Shout, Elixir of Fort, Fort, Mark, and Kings. Some, but fewer than the Warlock, of his pieces are without Stamina, but he has 5/5 in Heart of the Wild.
3175 vs 4053
And the Druid has more buffs and more scaling talented than the Warlock (ie the gap is even smaller)
LOL
LMAO
Continuing to not cause problems isn’t actually a change from the previous state of “not causing problems”
I get a lot of folks are playing with Warlocks still waiting on gear drops using things like Dreamweave and pure spell power pieces with no Stamina, but Warlocks are by no means or stretch of the imagination “bottom of the barrel”
what a stupid change if that’s true why take away player choices, is it really just because of PVP? it is unbelievable to change the game around for the 10 people who care about PVP balance
Exactly. Locks are going to be unable to tank until they are full bis? Really casual friendly
So the issue is there’s only a few actual pieces of tanking cloth right now. It’s not a matter of waiting for drops, it’s that they don’t exist.
He didnt even try to refute the fact that lock is the lowest hp tank by a decent margin. Again that is fine provided there is a spec that will smooth spike dmg or prevent you from dying on a tank buster. That was the purpose of the SL tree.
That druid you linked mate was wearing multiple items with low or no stam, so yes if he had enchanted his gear with stam and actually used other viable tank pieces he could have easily hit 5k. Thing is, nothing hits hard and bears have cds, so it unnecessary in p2.
Not even close.
Why is this even a point though? Are Warriors wearing 95% +Defense gear? Are Paladins?
We’re about to find ourselves in 20m raids, where healing is going to be presumed and balanced around being steadier and more available thanks to double the Healers. Tanks on the other hand won’t necessarily double, and we’ll still have duo Tank fights as the likely norm. This is all going off prior experience with pretty much the rest of WoW.
That means you’re not going to be seeing Tanks hover at 50-70% health waiting on their lone healer getting them topped off. Outside of burst bosses (if we get any), EH wars just don’t mean anything when you can have the equivalent of Flash of Light spam from a Paladin going off like a metronome from start to finish.
I doubt Druids lament Automatic Crowd Pummeler or Failed Flying Experiment lack Stamina. Not a single Tank is compelled to wear double stamina trinkets. So it really isn’t a worry.
Finally, we’re getting dedicated tier sets at 60. I get it isn’t finalized yet but the stat distribution at least shows their intent. The stat budget remains largely the same, just better prioritized and with set bonuses that (in theory) we actually care about.
We’ll be fine on survivability. The day Druid EH actually becomes relevant is the day a boss has come out that literally no one can Tank but a Druid using SotF and max Armor/Stamina gear.
So was the Warlock.
That’s entirely my point.
Because they aren’t.
Bro you put the lock, with the 3 stam items he is missing with 15% sta and that gets him to what 3.5k hp. The druid will break 5k.
In what world is 3.5k similar to 5k. 40% difference. Then Locks are short high value cds. Why SL is needed.
Soon as we get to anything that hits hard, i see you BWL, locks will get flurried and die as this problem will become very apparent.
Again you are pushing to kill an entire talent tree. Silly go elsewhere
The Warlock is missing the talent that scales his Stamina as well, he’s deep Destruction. He’s also exclusively prioritizing offense, which is why the five, not three, items he has with no Stamina are the way they are. If he just wanted to go for pure Stamina he can get well over 4k, which is absurd at this level with bosses hitting for 600-800 damage. 3k is more than sufficient for that.
The best Stamina pieces are mostly not Gnomer pieces, and this is true of both the Druid and the Warlock. But Druids aren’t using the Ironaya staff for the same reason Warlocks aren’t using the RFD robes: there are way better offensive options.
…and? Let’s say Druids could hit 10k. What of it? You still have to heal them through the incoming damage (same as anyone else) and 10k Health isn’t enough to never heal them.
Are your healers so slow and bad at their jobs that they need 10+ seconds to react?
This isn’t Wrath, and CDs for Fusion Punch or Soul Reaper simply aren’t there for every Tank, so defensive CDs have exceptionally limited value. Survival Instincts isn’t really amazing because of the CD it provides, but because of the Rage income on Dodge. There’s also literally nothing else to take for that slot, much like the upcoming Improved Frenzied Regeneration. Unlike SI though, Imp FR doesn’t provide any passive benefits and it empties your Rage, so that slot is more or less useless.
They could change literally nothing for Warlocks in T1 gear and they’d have Stamina oozing out of their ears. Vanilla T1 has about 22-23 Stamina per piece for Warlocks. They’ll be juuuust fine.
Demonology is also a DPS tree, that’s why they get a new fancy pet next phase. If you want to go deep Demonology as a Warlock Tank, you still can, and if you’re so scared of dying you’re free to go Master Demonologist and pull out the Void Walker for 10% damage reduction.
I know you won’t though, for the same reason you won’t be using high Stamina pieces with zero Spell Power on them. Same reason Druids aren’t even going to bother with the Warden Staff unless it gets upgraded.
Yes but it just makes sense to let meta get soul link. Maybe at a reduced value but not removed altogether
If your focus is on survivability alone, sure, but that’s a bit of a noob trap. Tanks haven’t been Stamina sponges with no regard for their output in a long long time.
There’s a reason deep Destruction is the go-to spec.
If thats your argument then why make the change? It makes no sense
I’m not Blizzard. I don’t care if Soul Link goes away or not, since it isn’t a needed talent for Tanking.
It’s a point because leather and mail and plate even if it’s not dedicated tanking gear does have stats that lend themselves more towards tanking.
Exactly, dont remember anyone complaining it was too strong of a tank. Just leave soul link as is
And like I said above, the previewed T1 Rogue Tank set and the original T1 Warlock set both have a bigger focus on Stamina than we’re already seeing right now, coupled with the fact that everyone has excess EH for the content.
Not really relevant to whatever Blizzard is using as a metric.
That’s fine so your argument is that theoretically gear might support lock tanking better, when/if that happens then SL not being available is a valid discussion.